Only God is Omniscient

 

The Text:

Mat 17:24  And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? (KJV)

The Context:

Mat 17:24  When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the temple tax came to Peter. They asked him, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”
Mat 17:25  “Certainly,” he answered. Peter went into the house. Before he could speak, Jesus asked him, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the world collect fees or taxes? Is it from their family members or from other people?”
Mat 17:26  “From other people,” Peter answered. Jesus said to him, “Then the family members are exempt.
Mat 17:27  However, so that we don’t create a scandal, go to the sea and throw in a hook. Take the first fish that you catch. Open its mouth, and you will find a coin. Give that coin to them for you and me.” (GW, God’s Word translation)

My Comment:

What I have noted in this passage is that it teaches the omniscience of our Lord Jesus Christ. Only Omniscience would know that:

(1) a fish had swallowed a coin,

(2) the coin was sufficient to pay the Temple tax for both Jesus and Peter,

(3) the first fish Peter caught would be the fish that swallowed the coin,

(4) Peter had this conversation with the Temple tax collectors before Peter came to tell Jesus about it.

Psalms 139:4
4  Even before there is a single word on my tongue, you know all about it, LORD.
GOD’S WORD

As for why provision was given for the payment of just two and not the whole group of twelve disciples and Jesus is explained by the question that was asked of Peter, “Does not your teacher pay the tax?” The Temple tax collectors by their question only specified tax was due from Peter and Jesus, so that is what was paid.

My Conclusion:

Only God is omniscient (all knowing, knows everything). Omniscience is a divine attribute that belongs to God exclusively, and cannot be communicated, delegated, or given to a created being.

In theology, omniscience is classed as an incommunicable attribute. In this account of the Temple Tax and how Jesus paid it we see the omniscience of our Lord Jesus Christ clearly demonstrated.

Therefore, Jesus not only had a human nature, but possessed a divine nature, demonstrating He was God in human flesh.

Only God is omniscient. Jesus demonstrated His omniscience. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Jesus is not God the Father. Jesus is a separate person. Jesus is God the Son.

In the New Testament, the Father is called God (John 6:27); the Son is called God (John 1:1, 14; John 20:28); the Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3, 4).

This proves the doctrine of the Trinity, even though the word “Trinity” is not used in the Bible.

This proves the doctrine of the Trinity, even though Jesus is never called “God the Son” in the Bible.

Be careful, when interpreting the Bible, that you do not fall for the “exact word” fallacy. Be careful, when interpreting the Bible, that you not make the mistake of not employing “necessary inference” to arrive at the truth of what the Bible teaches. That is what false cults and false religions do.

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Still more on John 17:3

The Text:

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Muslim Reply to My Claim:

I’ve not misunderstood John 17:3, you have. Do we have to go to the dictionary to understand the meaning of “only”❓️ really 

Let’s read the verse.

[John 17:3]

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

That means no one else can be true God❗️ Father alone is the only true God. So problematic was this passage for later Trinitarians in the 3rd and 4th century that they changed it when they were commenting on this very passage. One of the examples is Saint Augustine (354 – 430 C.E.) Bishop and Theologian, when he was commenting on this particular verse of the Gospel of John, he actually changed the text to substantiate the doctrine of the trinity.

My Response:

It is very interesting to me that you should suppose that I have misread John 17:3!

John 17:3 teaches that we can only have eternal life if we continue to know both God the Father AND continue to know Jesus Christ His Son.

That Jesus is God’s Son is stated at the beginning of this prayer when Jesus prayed:

John 17:1  These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: (KJV)

Jesus is praying to His Father. Jesus is the Father’s Son. The Father is God. Therefore, Jesus is God’s Son.

In John 17:2 Jesus prays and asserts that God the Father has given to Jesus the exclusive authority over all mankind to give eternal life to all those the Father has given to Jesus:

Joh 17:2 just as you have given Him authority over all mankind to give eternal life to all whom you have given Him. (Williams NT)

That this authority is exclusive and is given to Jesus alone is stated by Jesus Himself when Jesus said:

John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus spoke of this authority, given exclusively to Him by the Father, in Matthew 11:27,

Matthew 11:27 All things were handed over to Me by My Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone fully know the Father except the Son, and to whom the Son may will to reveal Him. (Lavenders’ NT)

John 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (KJV)

John 17:3 Now eternal life means knowing you as the only true God and knowing Jesus your messenger as Christ. (Williams NT)

Jesus identifies the Father as the only true God. The Father, clearly, is the only true God in opposition to or in contrast with all other false gods.

Jesus is not speaking of His Father in opposition to Himself or in contrast with Himself in a manner that denies His own Deity. Anyone who has carefully read the entire Gospel of John learns that from beginning (John 1:1, “and the word was God”) to its climax (John 20:28, “my Lord and my God”) that the Gospel of John was written for a specific purpose:

Joh 20:31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (KJV)

Joh 20:31 But these have been recorded, in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life, as bearers of His name. (Williams NT)

Jesus then continues His prayer in John 17,

Joh 17:4 I have glorified you down here upon the earth by completing the work which you have given me to do. (Williams NT)

Consider carefully the implicit claim Jesus makes in His prayer (John 17:5) that He, Jesus, was with the Father for all eternity past in heaven as the Son of God:

Joh 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (KJV)

Joh 17:5 So now, Father, glorify me up there in your presence just as you did before the world existed. (Williams NT)

Joh 17:5  Father! Give me glory in your presence now, the same glory I had with you before the world was made. (GNB, Good News Bible)

Joh 17:5 Now, Father, give me back the glory that I had with you before the world was created. (CEV, Contemporary English Version)

Both Muslims and Jehovah’s Witnesses fail to understand that there are three Persons in the One Godhead (Matthew 28:19, “in the name,” singular). In the Bible the Father is spoken of as God (John 6:27). Jesus is called God (John 20:28). The Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3, 4).

In Jesus the fulness of the Godhead dwelt bodily:

Colossians 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (KJV)

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More on John 17:3


The Text:

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The Challenge:

Christians always run away from John 17:3 when Jesus says the only true God is the Father and he is the Christ that was sent by the Father. and run to John 17:5. They say us Muslims cherry pick one verse. But let’s put things in its context because Jesus is praying and in John 17:1, 2 and 3 Jesus is saying God give me the glory that i had with you. In John 17:5, what is Jesus praying for❓️ first and foremost, if Jesus was Almighty God, did he lose his glory❓️

My Response:

You totally misunderstand John 17:3.

(1) you refuse to take John 17:3 in its immediate, near, remote and total Bible context. Therefore, you do not understand this verse and your claims as to what it says or teaches are false.

(2) you misread John 17:3 by failing to take into account just what the word “only” must have reference to:

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Indeed, “only” modifies “God that really exists” or “God there is,” and not “you.” Therefore, the two phrases—“You [Father], the only true God” and “Only you [Father], the true God”—do not have the same meaning.

Shelenberger, A. T. (2009). An Exposition of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Argument in Rejecting Christ’s Deity Using John 17:3. Christian Apologetics Journal, 8(2), 7.

The whole article by A. T. Shelenberger provides a thorough refutation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ mistaken understanding of John 17:3 and in doing so also refutes the Muslim misunderstanding of this New Testament text.

Earlier in the article Shelenberger states:

The hidden equivocation becomes evident when the phrase “the one [Father] ‘who alone [is] truly God’” is converted to the sentence “the Father alone [or only the Father] is truly God.” The Watchtower had, in effect, made a radical change in the wording. As if the two sentences have similar meaning, the word order basically went from “the Father is the only true God” to “only the Father is the true God.” But, in fact, they do not mean the same.

Shelenberger, A. T. (2009). An Exposition of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Argument in Rejecting Christ’s Deity Using John 17:3. Christian Apologetics Journal, 8(2), 6.

Before that, Shelenberger states:

One contention the Watchtower propounds is that, according to John 17:3, only the Father is the true God. This entails the argument: since Christ places the Father in the category “true God,” it must mean that he does not place himself in it; and only the Father belongs in the category. This argument, however, commits three informal fallacies.

Shelenberger, A. T. (2009). An Exposition of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Argument in Rejecting Christ’s Deity Using John 17:3. Christian Apologetics Journal, 8(2), 5.

When the text of John 17:3 is read carefully, it is clear that Jesus does not exclude Himself so as to deny His own Deity when He speaks of “the only true God.”

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Daily Bible Nugget #823, 2 Peter 3:18

 

The Nugget:

2Pe 3:18  But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. (KJV)

2Pe 3:18  But grow in the good will and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Glory belongs to him now and for that eternal day! Amen. (GW, God’s Word translation)

2Pe 3:18 Let the wonderful kindness and the understanding that come from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ help you to keep on growing. Praise Jesus now and forever! Amen. (CEV, Contemporary English Version)

My Comment:

I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to read God’s Word, the Bible, daily!

This is the key to spiritual life and growth.

This is the key to understanding the significance of world trends and events. I have heard some Christian podcasters sharing opinions about events in the Middle East today. I wish they knew their Bible better!

I highly recommend that you read the New Testament long enough each day (for a total of twenty minutes or more) and often enough each week (at least four days a week) from here on out–that is, on a permanent continuing basis. Research has shown that by doing this you will reap the benefits such reading can bring.

I highly appreciate Ken Sagely’s selection of Bible verses about delighting in God’s Word!

From Ken Sagely’s Facebook Post:

DELIGHTING IN HIS WORD

JOB 23.12
Neither have i gone back
from the commandment of His lips
I have esteemed the words of his mouth

more than necessary food.

PSALM 1.1-2
Blessed is the man
that walketh not
in the counsel of the ungodly.
nor standeth in the way of sinners,
nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful
But his delight is in the law of the Lord :
and in his law doth he meditate

day and night.

PSALM 119.97
O how I love thy law!

it is my meditation all the day.

PROVERBS 8.34
Blessed is the man that heareth me,
watching daily at my gates.

waiting at the posts of my doors.

JEREMIAH 15.16
Thy words were found, and i did eat them:
and thy word was unto me
the joy and rejoicing of mine heart,
for am called by thy name:

O Lord God of hosts.

MATTHEW 4.4
But He answered and said, it is written,
Man shall not live by bread alone.
but by every word

that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

EPHESIANS 6.17
And take the helmet of salvation,
and the sword of the Spirit,

which is the Word of God.

HEBREWS 4.12
For the Word of God is quick,
and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,
and of the Joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts
and intents of the heart.

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Addressing 1 Corinthians 11:3 to Refute Anti-Trinitarians

 

The Text:

1Co 11:3  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (KJV)

1Co 11:3  However, I want you to realize that Christ has authority over every man, a husband has authority over his wife, and God has authority over Christ. (GW, God’s Word  translation)

1Co 11:3  But I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ. (GNB, Good News Bible)

1Co 11:3 Now I want you to know that Christ is the head over all men, and a man is the head over a woman. But God is the head over Christ. (CEV, Contemporary English Version)

My Comment:

In this case I mean by “Anti-Trinitarians” the Arians of the fourth century. Unfortunately, some contemporary and well-known Evangelical theologians, at least for a time (1970 until 2016), unwittingly fell into the same kind of error in their understanding of 1 Corinthians 11:3 as the ancient Arians did of passages declaring the Deity of Christ.

My Discussion:

My issue is that I have seen some modern Evangelical theologians object to cross reference Bible study. Some Evangelical theologians believe that the historical Creeds and Confessions of the Church must be our guide when it comes to establishing correct doctrine. I agree that the Creeds can help to confirm the accuracy of our understanding of Bible doctrine, but I affirm that the Bible is the final authority and that correct doctrine can be established or determined by a careful study of the Bible.

I have now completed my reading of a book which highlights an aspect of the Nicene Creed which demonstrates a major error several Evangelical theologians (including Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware)  have fallen into in their (mis)interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11:3. The book is:

Giles, Kenneth. (2017). The rise and fall of the complementarian doctrine of the trinity. Cascade Books.

The error is to use 1 Corinthians 11:3 as the basis for asserting the eternal subordination of the Son.

1Co 11:3  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

The error is to claim that just as women are to be in submission to their husbands, so Christ is eternally subordinate to the Father.

This error borders on Arianism, a heresy condemned at the Council of Nicaea. The Nicene Creed is accepted by nearly all Christians.

I basically agree with the author’s theology.

On the specific issue of the eternal subordination of the Son, I believe he is correct. I believe he is correct that the doctrine of the eternal subordination of the Son is based upon a mistaken reading of what the Bible teaches.

Giles cites in Chapter One from the creeds and confessions:

The Athanasian Creed says: “In this Trinity none is before or after the other, none is greater or less than another, . . . the three persons are coequal”; all three are “almighty” and “Lord.” The Belgic Confession of 1561 says, “All three [are] co-eternal and co-essential. There is neither first nor last: for they are all three one, in truth, in power, in goodness, and in mercy.” The Second Helvetic Confession of 1566 says that the “three persons [are] consubstantial, coeternal, and coequal,” and then it condemns those who teach that any divine person is “subservient, or subordinate to another in the Trinity, and that there is something unequal, a greater or less in one of the divine persons.”[1]

 

In Chapter Four, Giles states that the “Athanasian Creed emphatically excludes hierarchical ordering. It says that in this Trinity “none is before or after, greater or lesser, all are co-equal.”[2]

Giles is not correct when he affirms such matters cannot be settled by reference to the content of the Bible alone.

He may be among several writers on hermeneutics who also make the claim that studying the Bible by means of consulting cross references is a very mistaken means of learning what the Bible teaches.

Giles states in Chapter Four:

Alister McGrath concludes that Arius got the Bible wrong because of his “proof-text” approach to “doing” theology. He says,

One of the outcomes of the Arian controversy was the recognition of the futility, even theological illegitimacy, of “proof-texting”—the simplistic practice of believing that a theological debate can be settled by quoting a few passages from the Bible.

Athanasius got it right, says McGrath, because he looked for “The overall pattern disclosed by these texts.”[3]

 

Since I have authored/edited three major Bible study works of cross references (The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, 1992 & 2023; Nelson’s Cross Reference Guide to the Bible, 2007; The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury, 2016), I suspect I may know more about their use from long use and careful study than they do.

Perhaps they are confusing “proof-texting” with “cross reference Bible study.” There is a difference! I would think that most careful students of the Bible know that “Scripture interprets Scripture” and that “The Bible is its own best interpreter.” I like to express this as “The Bible is a self-interpreting and self-correcting Book.” It is self-correcting in that if you are mistaken in the interpretation of a particular verse, passage, subject, doctrine in one place, by further study you will likely encounter things that “don’t fit,” such that you must change or correct your interpretation of what you first thought you understood.

I firmly disagree with his claim that no one can come to firm doctrinal conclusions using the Bible alone. He believes we must be guided also by the great creeds of the past as the settled voice of the church which instruct us how the Bible must be read.

On this issue I do not disagree with the support for the correct view of the Trinity he documents from the Creeds.

Giles states that Athanasius, by taking into account the broader scope of Scripture content, was able to formulate (by what I call the “Rule of Necessary Inference”) a hermeneutical rule that “that made sense of all of Scripture and guaranteed the full divinity of the Son, our Lord and Savior. What this rule lays down as a hermeneutical principle has been followed by all catholic theologians across the centuries, is that not everything said of the Son in the New Testament can be read back into his triune life in eternity.[4] Some comments relate only to his self-chosen temporal subordination in his coming down from heaven and to the limitations he accepted in becoming fully man for our salvation. This rule demands that we make a contrast between the Son’s earthly ministry “in the form of a servant,” what Reformed theologians call, his “state of humiliation,” and his heavenly reign as Lord and King, in all might, majesty, and authority, what Reformed theologians call his “state of exaltation.”[5]

 

[1] Giles, K. (2017). The rise and fall of the complementarian doctrine of the trinity. Cascade Books.

[2] Giles, K. (2017). The rise and fall of the complementarian doctrine of the trinity. Cascade Books.

[3] Giles, K. (2017). The rise and fall of the complementarian doctrine of the trinity. Cascade Books.

[4] Giles, K. (2017). The rise and fall of the complementarian doctrine of the trinity. Cascade Books.

[5] Giles, K. (2017). The rise and fall of the complementarian doctrine of the trinity. Cascade Books.

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Addressing John 17:3 to Refute Anti-Trinitarians


The Text:

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The Challenge:

A lot of people say asking for Jesus to say verbatim “I am God worship me” is a con and a fallacy. It doesn’t matter.

If you believe Jesus is God, it’s because you ignore/reframed John 17:3, John 20:17, 1 Cor 8:6, Rev 3:12, 1 Cor 15:28, and so many other scriptures to not mean what they obviously say.

Jesus doesn’t call himself God. It doesn’t matter if he says it verbatim, there’s no concept of Jesus being God. Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is God’s Christ; and the head of Jesus is God. The Father is greater than Jesus.

It’s a kind of condemnation that a false religion like Islam has a better understanding of Jesus than we believers.

My Reply:

Johnny Mack: As I have thoroughly explained to you and others before, your understanding of John 17:3 is totally mistaken.

You are misreading the text of John 17:3 and failing to take into account the immediate as well as more remote contexts of John 17:3.

It is you who have “reframed” John 17:3.

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (KJV)

Joh 17:3 Now eternal life means knowing you as the only true God and knowing Jesus your messenger as Christ. (Williams New Testament)

God the Father has given exclusive authority to His Son, Jesus Christ, to give eternal life to all the Father has given to Jesus:

Joh 17:2 just as you have given Him authority over all mankind to give eternal life to all whom you have given Him.

In the beginning of this prayer, Jesus requests:

Joh 17:1 When Jesus had said all these things, He lifted His eyes to heaven and said: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that He may glorify you,

Later in the prayer Jesus requests:

Joh 17:5 So now, Father, glorify me up there in your presence just as you did before the world existed.

Jesus, therefore, both claims and reveals that He has had an eternal existence as the Son of God before the world existed. Thus, Jesus possesses two natures: an eternal divine nature, and an assumed human nature which He took upon Himself when He was born to the virgin Mary, when He was called “Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

In John 17:3, when Jesus speaks of His Father “as the only true God,” He does not deny His own Deity.

Links to my prior thorough discussions of John 17:3

https://www.realbiblestudy.com/?p=3788

 

https://www.realbiblestudy.com/?p=3674

 

https://www.realbiblestudy.com/?p=2541

Posted in Apologetics--Christian, Doctrinal Discussions, False Religions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly | Tagged | 3 Comments

Daily Bible Nugget #822, Psalm 23:3


The Nugget:

Psa 23:3  He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

From Ken Sagely’s Facebook Post:

PSALM 23.3 Guidance

He restores my soul: He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name’s sake.

Cross References:

PSALM 32.8
I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide thee with mine eye.

ISAIAH 58.11
AND the LORD shall Guide you continually, and Satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like an watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

PROVERBS 3.5-6
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

unto thine own understanding:

Trust…lean not …”Trust has the idea lying helplessly face down:” Not leaning means “relying on something or someone else rather than supporting yourself”

PROVERBS 3:6
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and He shall direct thy paths.

[acknowledge .. lit. know; know God personally and be in fellowship with Him (John 17:3), direct. . Lit.. to make straight: clear obstructions and to enable one to go forward.]

PSALM 37.3, 5

Trust in the Lord, and do good so shall thou dwell in the land and be fed.
(Better, feed on His faithfulness!!)

PSALM 37:5 Commit thy way unto the Lord, trust also in Him, and he shall bring to pass.

(Commit thy way. Roll your way your burdens on the Lord, although they may cause you anxiety, they are not too great for him!! 1 Peter 5:7)

PSALM 25.4-5 Shew me thy ways, O Lord, teach me thy paths, O lord,
5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me; for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

PSALM 110.105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

(cross reference Pro 6.23 For the commandment is a lamp and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life)

JOHN 7.17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God or whether I speak of myself.

(note: The thought is this: Anyone who does the will of God will be able to judge the authority of My teaching.)

cross reference:

John 8.32-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you  continue in my word then are you my disciples indeed.  32 And you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

GUIDE ME, O THOU GREAT JEHOVAH

Guide me, O Thou great Jehovah, Pilgrim through this barren land;
I am weak, but Thou art mighty; Hold me with Thy powerful hand;
Songs of praises, Songs of praises I will ever give to Thee. I will ever give to thee!

Cross Reference Bible Study for Psalm 23:3 from The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury:

Psalms 23:3

He restoreth. For He is Jehovah-rophecha (Exo 15:26), and will graciously heal. or, “bring back from wandering” (Jer 50:19) [Kay]. +*Psa 16:10; *Psa 19:7 mg. *Psa 49:15; *Psa 51:10, 11, 12; Psa 85:4, 5, 6, 7; Psa 89:4; *Psa 116:3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; +*Psa 119:176, Rth 4:15, Job 33:30, Isa 58:12, Jer 30:17; *Jer 32:37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, Hos 14:4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, *Mic 7:8; Mic 7:9; Mic 7:18; Mic 7:19, Luk 22:31, 32, Joh 4:14; Joh 21:15, 16, 17, 18, 19, *1Jn 2:1, *Rev 3:19.

soul. Heb. nephesh, +Gen 12:13.

he leadeth. T806. *Psa 5:8; *Psa 25:4; Psa 25:5; Psa 25:9; Psa 25:10; Psa 27:11; *Psa 31:3; **+Psa 32:8; Psa 33:18; Psa 43:3; Psa 48:14; Psa 61:2; Psa 73:24; +*Psa 119:10; Psa 119:133; Psa 139:9, 10; Psa 139:23, 24; *Psa 143:8, 9, 10, Gen 12:1, Exo 13:21; Exo 15:13; Exo 33:13, 14, 15, Deut 32:10; Deut 32:11; +Deut 32:12, Jdg 4:14, 2Sa 5:24; 2Sa 22:29, +*1Ki 13:9 note. 2Ch 32:22, **Pro 3:5; Pro 3:6; *Pro 8:20, Isa 30:21; Isa 40:10, 11; +*Isa 42:16; Isa 48:17; Isa 49:9, 10; Isa 55:4; Isa 57:18; Isa 58:11; Isa 61:8, Jer 3:4; Jer 6:16; Jer 31:8, 9, 10; Jer 42:2, 3, Mic 7:7, 8, Luk 1:79, *Joh 10:3; Joh 10:4; Joh 10:13; Joh 16:13, Php 1:10, *Col 1:9; Col 1:10, 1Th 3:10, 11, Rev 7:17.

paths. *Psa 16:11; Psa 85:13; +*Psa 119:35, Pro 2:8; Pro 4:11; *+Pro 8:20, Isa 42:16.

righteousness. For He is Jehovah-tzidkenu (Jer 23:6), and is Himself my righteousness, and I am righteous in Him (Jer 33:16). Psa 5:8, Jer 23:6; Jer 33:16.

for his. Psa 25:11; Psa 72:17, 18, 19; Psa 79:9; Psa 106:8, +1Sa 12:22, Eze 20:14, *Eph 1:6, 1Jn 2:12.

name’s. +**Psa 9:10 note; +Psa 20:1 note; Psa 25:11; Psa 31:3; Psa 143:11, 1Ki 8:41, +Isa 48:9, Jer 14:7, Eze 36:22.

 

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Answering Anti-Trinitarians

 

The Text:

John 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

My Comment:

Thomas (often called “doubting Thomas”) believed in the full deity of our Lord Jesus Christ when he handled and saw his bodily resurrected Lord. Thomas addressed Jesus as his “Lord and God.” That witness settles the matter for all time.

On Facebook I have visited a site called “Acts17 Apologetics” associated with David Wood. One of the posters there, Johnny Mack, claims he once believed in the Trinity. After more careful reading and study of the Bible he no longer believes in the doctrine of the Trinity. I believe I have interacted with him before, perhaps in connection with his misunderstanding of John 17:3. Just lately I responded to another of his challenges.

This material is lengthy. Bible-believing Christians need to get serious about defending their faith (Jude 1:3). Bible-believing Christians NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ. God expects us to be avid readers of His written word in the Bible. He also expects us to carefully answer those who ask us about our faith or who challenge our faith (1 Peter 3:15).

The Anti-Trinitarian Challenge:

The biggest problem of an incarnation christology that leads to the eternal situation of a God the Son with a human nature, is it shows

1. God can change according to Trinitarians,

2. The trinity’s divine consubstantial nature has a new nature added to it in perpetuity thus changing what is consubstantial to all forever.

The ONE God must then also be truly man due to the installment of a new nature.

Think of a group like the Jackson 5. If Michael Jackson added one of his friends to sing along with him on all the songs of the album, is it still 5 people or 6?

Or consider H2O. H2O is water. We all drink it safely. If only Oxygen added another Oxygen thus H2O2, it’s no longer water, but hydrogen peroxide, which is not water. Thus even if Hydrogen doesn’t change but one molecule in the compound does, the entire compound changes.

You have to not just maintain the dual nature church tradition, I invite you to follow the logic of the idea to its logical conclusions.

If you’ll say, well, only the Son has the added human nature not the others. The above problem is still present. Imagine the logic you’d have to accept:

The three persons SHARE this single nature. And so it’s not tritheism or polytheism, it’s monotheism because these three have ONE nature, together. If one person in this monotheistic structure has a change in his nature, it is a change in the ONE NATURE consubstantial to all.

It’s nature. Not an attribute. You can’t say, the Father does this attribute, but the Son has different attributes to explain away this problem.

““For I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, the sons of Jacob, have not come to an end.” ‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

““For He is not a man, as I am, that I may answer Him— That we may go to court together!” ‭‭Job‬ ‭9‬:‭32‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

““God is not a man, that He would lie, Nor a son of man, that He would change His mind; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” ‭‭Numbers‬ ‭23‬:‭19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

But if the One God nature that Jesus has consubstantial with the other two, why wouldn’t it be logical to say God is a man?

God is truly man?

Again even if you believe the ONE NATURE OF TRIUNE GOD is unimpacted by the CHANGE in one of its persons, then even Jesus, truly God truly man the God Man, it can be said of him “God is a man, truly”. Especially if you have ONE Jesus and not two.

In conclusion,

The text is simpler than these philosophies developed by non Jews in the centuries after the death of Jesus.

Instead of an incarnation Christology, I believe the text gives us an exaltation Christology. God highly exalted Jesus…

“For this reason also GOD highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,” ‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

And…

having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

But doesn’t John 1:14 teach an incarnation Christology? I say no. It isn’t a person who becomes flesh, it’s God’s SPOKEN WORD that tabernacled among them. Jesus was the tabernacle of the Spoken Word of God. John 14:10 says that the Father was in Jesus. 2 Cor 5:19 says God was in Jesus reconciling the world to himself.

The text doesn’t say Jesus became flesh, it says the word did, and that word was God, God was dwelling in Jesus, and John 1:18 says, that Jesus declared the invisible God to them. Jesus was “highly exalted” by God. Only a man or person of a lower degree can be exalted. The exaltation Christology is therefore more biblical than an incarnation one.

My Response:

Did Jesus exist as a person before his birth in Bethlehem? Jesus claimed to have seen Abraham. Was Jesus mistaken? Jesus claimed Isaiah saw him. Was Jesus mistaken?

Jesus claimed he came down from heaven. Was Jesus mistaken?

I rather suspect that Johnnie Mack is mistaken and I, therefore, suggest he would profit greatly by reading the Bible more carefully than his comments so far indicate he has.

Johnny Mack replied to me:

Brother, I agree that CAREFULLY reading the Bible is to be followed. Let’s see if you have been reading these texts carefully:

1. You said Jesus said he saw Abraham. Let’s see what the text says.

“Your father Abraham was overjoyed that hewould see My day, and he saw itand rejoiced.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭56‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

According to Jesus my friend, who saw whose day? Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus’s day. Jesus never said he saw Abraham. But, who else made this mistake?

“So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?”” ‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭57‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

They are mistaken. They CONSTANTLY misunderstanding him. But Jesus never said he saw Abraham. But it’s all good. You’re just mistaken.

2. You said, Jesus said Isaiah saw Jesus. Let’s see what the text says.

John 12:36-41

36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Does the text say Jesus said Isaiah saw him?

No. John is the one speaking.

Next, is John saying that Isaiah saw Jesus? This is a better question because it’s John who is the one speaking. Ok.

What is the context and what does John reference from Isaiah?

The context is that Jesus performed so many miracles but people still didn’t believe. So he says this fulfilled the words of Isaiah:

“Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Then he says they couldn’t believe in Jesus and refers to another place in Isaiah:

“They do not know, nor do they understand, for He has smeared over their eyes so that they cannot see, and their hearts so that they cannot comprehend.”  ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭44‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Or…

““Make the hearts of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes blind, So that they will not see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed.”” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭6‬:‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Then THE key verse which you quoted:

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

You and the orthodox, take this to be a reference to Isaiah 6.

“In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord (Adonai) sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

But we want to read carefully. The verse says “These things said Isaiah…”. What things? Exactly. The things John referenced earlier about the eyes of the unbelievers were blinded and who has believed the report etc.

Those are the things Isaiah said that John is referring to. So does any of those things said by Isaiah happen when he saw Adonai high and lifted up???

Reading carefully the entirety of isaiah 6, we do get a clue from the isaiah 6 passage:

““Make the hearts of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes blind, So that they will not see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed.”” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭6‬:‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So we are forced to make a decision:

Isaiah does see Adonai high and lifted up, and he tells Isaiah to make the hearts hard and ears dull, eyes blind etc… but is this Jesus? Or is it Adonai, the Father?

We have to understand what JOHN is trying to convey to HIS original audience about disbelief in Jesus. Is he referring to passages in Isaiah because they prove Jesus is God? No.

Re-read the passages. Those passages are about the disbelief of people not the nature of Jesus.

The key verse is verse 41. Did Isaiah say these things when he saw Jesus sitting on a throne?

Let’s read the rest of Isaiah 6 for context.

“Then I said, “Woe to me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord (Yahweh) of armies.”” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭6‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Isaiah saw Yahweh in this vision. Yahweh whose glory fills the earth.

Is Jesus Yahweh? Is Jesus Adonai? Of course not. Jesus is Jesus. Yah is Yah. These are distinct persons with two separate names.

‬‬ “So that they will know that You alone, whose name is the Lord(Yah), Are the Most High over all the earth.” ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭83‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

How many people are the Most High? One.

How many people are named Yahweh? One.

John 17:3, how many people are the “only true God”? One.

1 Cor 8:6, how many people are God from whom are all things? One, the Father.

This is the uphill climb of those who believe Jesus is also God.

My Reply to Johnny Mack:

Thank you Johnnie Mack! This time you gave an interesting, careful, and extended reply to my comment.

You stated:

“According to Jesus my friend, who saw whose day? Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus’s day. Jesus never said he saw Abraham. But, who else made this mistake?

“So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?”” ‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭57‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

They are mistaken. They CONSTANTLY misunderstanding him. But Jesus never said he saw Abraham. But it’s all good. You’re just mistaken.”

I respond:

Perhaps in accordance with your chosen theology you may think that the Jews were constantly misunderstanding Jesus.

I would argue that there are instances, including this one, where the Jews understood correctly what Jesus was saying.

Another example where the Jews understood Jesus correctly is seen in an earlier instance recorded in the Gospel of John:

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (KJV)

Notice in context Jesus does not deny the inference drawn by the the Jews.

Later in the Gospel of John, Jesus does not correct the statement of Thomas made when he saw Jesus first-hand:

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

This confession of Thomas stands uncorrected by our Lord Jesus Christ because Thomas was correct to call Jesus his Lord and his God.

Now back to Abraham.

Jesus stated to the Jews:

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

A careful reading and study of the narrative in Genesis about the three men who visited Abraham (Genesis 18:2) in the preceding and following context will demonstrate that Jesus did indeed visit then revisit Abraham who rejoiced to see his day when Isaac was born according to promise.

You make the interesting comment or claim:

“How many people are named Yahweh? One.

John 17:3, how many people are the “only true God”? One.”

As for John 17:3,

John 17:3 Now eternal life means knowing you as the only true God and knowing Jesus your messenger as Christ. (Williams NT)

Jesus by this statement declares that eternal life is dependent upon our knowing the Father as the only true God AND knowing Jesus as Christ.

When Jesus speaks of the Father as the only true God Jesus does not exclude Himself so as to deny His own Deity.

As for how many people are named Jehovah? God the Father of course is named Jehovah. But so also Jesus is identified as Jehovah numerous times in the New Testament. Even in the narrative portion of Genesis I referred to above, in Genesis 19:24 there are two Jehovahs on the same scene at the same time. One Jehovah is in heaven Who sends judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah at the bidding of the second Jehovah upon earth.

My Comment:

I guess my response, as usual, was a “thread killer.” No further discussion took place.

There is much more to know about these Bible topics. I have addressed them quite fully on this site before. I have provided the answers most fully in my Bible study resources, The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury.

 

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The Christian God Ignorant of His Own Creation Part Six

 

The Text:

Mark 11:13  And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. (KJV)

The Challenge:

seems like you have convinced yourself to the lies and instead of accepting the truth you arrogantly continue to justify these falsities that you attribute to God.

When he went there he realised there were no figs. Why didn’t he know.

Stop playing stupid with yourself man.

My Answer:

You may delight in using ad hominem attacks, as in your most recent comment. Notice you never answer the evidence I have presented from the Bible itself that demonstrates the truth of what I claim.

You ask,

“When he went there he realised there were no figs. Why didn’t he know.”

I answered that question in my previous comments.

In case you failed to read with adequate comprehension, I will remind you what I already explained.

(1) Jesus declared that He came down from heaven (John 3:13. 6:38).

(2) Jesus declared He was sent by His Father who is in heaven (John 4:34. 5:24. 6:38).

(3) Jesus became a man, being conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20, 21. Luke 1:31).

(4) As a man, He was tempted or tested in all points like we are, with the exception that He never sinned, according to Hebrews 4:15,

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

(5) Jesus possessed both a divine nature and a human nature (Philippians 2:6, 7, 8).

(6) In His human nature He always did what His Father desired (John 8:29).

(7) In some things, He voluntarily chose to be like us, where He wept (John 11:35), grew tired (Mark 6:31), became hungry (Mark 11:12), and limited His knowledge (as concerning the presence or absence of figs on the fig tree (Mark 11:13); as concerning who touched Him when a woman suffering 12 years from an ailment was instantly healed when in faith she touched the hem (Matthew 9:20) of His garment).

(8) In some things He demonstrated full knowledge and omniscience where He:

a) knew all men (John 2:24, 25)

Joh 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
Joh 2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

b) Knew and saw supernaturally before ever having met Nathaniel exactly where Nathaniel had been (John 1:45-51):

Joh 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Joh 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

c) Knew what was in the minds of the scribes present in the audience which heard Him declare to a man in need of healing, “Son, thy sins be forgiven thee” (Mark 2:5), that the scribes thought within themselves that Jesus spoke blasphemies. Jesus perceived their thoughts and demonstrated by healing the man before their very eyes, commanding the man to take up his bed, and return home, which the man did, proving that He, Jesus, both had the power to forgive sins–something only God can do–and instantaneously heal a physical malady–something only God can do, Jesus demonstrating His own deity.

d) Knew that a fish swimming in the local sea had swallowed a coin of sufficient value, such that when Peter was sent to get the fish, the first fish he caught would contain the coin and so pay the tax for Jesus and Peter, Matthew 17:27,

Mat 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

e) Knew ahead of time when He sent his two disciples into a village in preparation for His Triumphal Entry exactly what the two disciples would find and the attendant circumstances:

Mat 21:2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
Mat 21:3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

f) Knew, in preparation for the Last Supper, that Peter and John would meet up with a man carrying a pitcher of water who would take them to the upper room which had been prepared for Jesus and His disciples:

Luk 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

Thank you in advance for carefully reading what I have presented for you in answer to your question.

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The Christian God Ignorant of His Own Creation Part Five

 

The Text:

Mark 11:13  And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. (KJV)

The Challenge:

im asking you for a explanation as to why your god didnt know that the fig tree he creates didnt have any figs on it. Give me your explanation. Stop copy pasting what others have said. Im haveing a discussion with you, so give your input from your understanding. Give your explanation.

So here goes again; explain why your god didnt know, that the fig tree he created, didnt have any figs on it?

My Answer:

There is nothing in the Bible that remotely suggests that our Lord Jesus Christ was not aware of the nature and seasons of produce of the fig tree.

Jesus in His human nature, according to the New Testament record, sometimes chose not to know what He surely in His Divine nature did know (John 16:30; 21:17). Jesus spoke of not knowing the day and hour of His return (Mark 13:32). He did not know who touched Him when a woman touched the hem of His garment and was immediately healed (Mark 5:25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31). So with the fig tree in question: Jesus in His human nature did not choose to know ahead of time how much, if any, fruit was on the tree.

The real problem with understanding what is reported in Mark 11:13 is that modern readers are not familiar with fig trees since they do not live there like Jesus did.

Fig trees in Israel produce two or three crops of figs in their seasons.

(1) There is an early crop, the early figs, mentioned in Isaiah 28:4 as “the hasty fruit before the summer.” It is also mentioned in Jeremiah 24:2 and Nahum 3:12.

Isa 28:4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

It is also mentioned as the “firstripe in the fig tree” in Hosea 9:10,

Hos 9:10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

(2) There is the summer fig which is not eaten fresh but is dried on the housetops for use in the winter. The summer fig crop is mentioned in Jeremiah 24:2, Amos 8:2, and Micah 7:1.

(3) Then, weather permitting, there is the third crop or winter fig gathered as a delicious morsel in the spring.

The tree which Jesus sought fruit to eat had leaves visible from a distance. The leaves grow on the fig tree in a manner that they cover the fruit to protect it from the direct sun, But when he got to the tree, he found nothing on it but leaves, though it should have had fruit at that point in its fruit bearing cycle.

Since the tree grew so near to the public walkway, the owner should have left some of the fruit on the tree, according to the Law of Moses as recorded in Leviticus 19:9, 10; 23:22; Deuteronomy 24:19, 20, 21. Jesus, finding no fruit left, said “No man eat fruit of thee hereafter forever.”

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