Unbeliever’s Challenge:
What evidence?
My Response:
Here is the evidence you requested:
(e) Egyptian Politics
Why did Merenptah suddenly have to crush revolt so near home in Canaan as Ascalon and Gezer, tackle long-quiet Yenoam, and get involved with Israel, within his Years 1–4 (1213–1210)?
In ancient Near Eastern empires like those of New Kingdom Egypt or Assyria, it was commonplace for the accession of a new king to be greeted by revolt in those distant provinces that hoped thereby to secure their independence. But here we have something different: not a revolt in more distant regions such as Phoenicia or south Syria (e.g., Upe), but close to home in Canaan, even (Ascalon, Gezer) right under Pharaoh’s nose! This was not normal.
This suggests that there were specific reasons for the Egyptian attack on these places. The critical criterion of a vassal’s loyalty was payment of tribute. Failure to do so constituted rebellion. Ever since Tuthmosis III (1479–1425), this matter had been paramount. And from Lachish, for example, comes an ostracon, usually considered to be of Merenptah’s reign, that once recorded harvest tax payable in Year 4 (1210) to the Egyptian authorities.
Kitchen, K. A. (2006). On the Reliability of the Old Testament (pp. 228–229). Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
Continuing my citation from K. A. Kitchen:
But if these towns, Gezer and Ascalon (and maybe Yenoam?), could not, hence did not, pay their tax, then Pharaoh’s army would normally march out to collect it. If marauding bands such as some of Joshua’s (or the elders’) Israelites had come down from the hills at harvest and stolen the grain crops of these two towns, then the latter might well have had trouble in providing their grain-tax quotas to the pharaoh’s commissioners, and had to be cowed into coughing up somehow.
Looking for the source of the trouble, the Egyptian force had then ascended briefly into the hills to chase these bandits known as “Israel,” and knocked off a few of them, by way of warning. An Egyptian fort at modern Lifta (“Well of Me[rn]eptah”) may have been established to reinforce the vassal state of Jerusalem against them. One king of Gezer had earlier been worsted by Joshua’s raiders (Josh. 10:33), and a little later some Judean raiders may have penetrated briefly to Ascalon and its grainfields (cf. Judg. 1:18). So we might conceivably—but not certainly—have an interesting panorama here, hitherto unsuspected. Up north, Yenoam may have had similar trouble.
It is worth remarking that, along with the Song of Deborah barely half a century later, Merenptah’s mention virtually proves the antiquity of the concept of “all Israel.”
His troops encountered people who called themselves not Judahites or Benjaminites or Manassites, etc., but Israelites; and others (at Ascalon and Gezer?) who termed them likewise. And of course, automatically the whole group of these people could only be called “all Israel,” precisely as Deborah did later, in the poetical context of happening to name ten of the twelve/thirteen tribal groups that already made up Israel. Let us have no more silly claims that “all Israel” was a much later concept; Merenptah and Deborah during 1210 to 1160 forbid such an academic faux pas.
Kitchen, K. A. (2006). On the Reliability of the Old Testament (p. 229). Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
Here is the direct quotation from Merenptah’s own monument that tells his side of the events. Notice carefully that this is a direct mention of Israel and it is contemporaneous with the events alluded to in Joshua and Judges in the Bible:
The (foreign) chieftains lie prostrate, saying “Peace.” Not one lifts his head among the Nine Bows.2
Libya is captured, while Hattia is pacified.
Canaan is plundered, Ashkelon is carried off, and Gezerc is captured.
Yenoam is made into non-existence; Israel is wasted, its seed5 is not; and Hurru is become a widow because of Egypt.
All lands united themselves in peace. Those who went about are subdued by the king of Upper and Lower Egypt … Merneptah.
Hallo, W. W., & Younger, K. L. (2000). Context of Scripture (p. 41). Leiden; Boston: Brill.
Unbeliever’s Reply:
its almost like you don’t understand what proof is. Notice in the first post. IT SAYS SUGGEST!
There is literally nothing here that disputes my claims.
Thanks for wasting my time reading that…that…Whatever it is.
This crap doesn’t even make any real claims. It’s a mess of garbled paragraphs.
What exactly was this supposed to prove?
there is no side of the events I listed. The royal courts are the royal courts. What happened when they promoted “god” is literally a part of actual recorded history. There is no side. It happened its not disputed.
You are trying to make claims about magic and unbelievable events that were literally all hearsay. Including the death of Jesus.
The Romans kept excellent records. There is no mention of the crucifixion.
Again… The earliest bible ever found. (You can go look up the earliest bible found in Turkey.)
That bible states in it that Jesus wasn’t crucified.
The Quran also has Jesus listed simply as a prophet. (Another older version of the text.)
Now nothing more needs to be added as long as your cult leaders are keeping their historical text hidden for some reason.
We all know that reason.
The text goes contrary to what the Christians want and is being used for acquiring wealth, power and control.
This is why the Abrahamic cults kill each other. (And anybody else).
There is no justifications for holy wars and crusades other than for control.
ALSO: Nobody is going to burn in a hell for calling this dogma out for being what it is.
Another control tactic.
My Reply:
Israel is explicitly mentioned in an early Egyptian monument. There is nothing about “suggests” in that FACT. Since Israel is distinctly mentioned, together with several direct and named geographical locations in Israel of that time, that PROVES the historicity of the Joshua and Judges record.
You asked for EVIDENCE, and that is exactly what I gave you.
It is impossible that these Biblical narratives were made up out of whole cloth many centuries later. A supposed forger would not have been able to furnish the proper place names and setting for the events at a much later time for apart from the historical records we have in the Bible from the time that the events happened and confirmed in Egyptian secular history, all memory of those places would have perished.
Thank you for reading the material I furnished for you.
You stated above:
“The Abrahamic story as written by King David is a complete mess of garbled chaotic mythological beliefs used for the political control of the ignorant during a bronze and iron age era. (And up until today it would seem.)”
On what basis or authoritative source do you base the claim that King David wrote the “Abrahamic story”?
Unbeliever’s Reply:
Kind David didn’t personally write it. He had his version written.
This your argument?
King David’s royal line ruled in Jerusalem for about 400 years.
King Nebuchadnezzar finally captured the city and broke that royal line.
400 years of spreading the Christian dogma as fact to ignorant peasants who didn’t understand where the sun went at night. There was no education system.
Dude…Google is right there at your fingertips.
And your argument is he didn’t personally write it?
OK.
My bad for wording it incorrectly. Nobody knows the exact person. (The Christian Culture keeps their records hidden.)
Its not like there were publishers…
Ya know where on the New Testament it says the “King James” version.
Guess they got that all wrong, eh.
My Reply:
You are free to deny evidence when it is presented. That does not change the facts involved.
I am not arguing dogma. I am presenting the hard physical evidence that substantiates the historicity of the Bible.