Why Everyone is Wrong about Something—Including Me Part 4

Posted on August 3, 2025 by Jerry

 

The first of my promised “fireworks” did not at first bring the response I anticipated! Perhaps eventually it did.

(1) Mistaken religious faiths appeal to the wrong basis of authority.

I asserted that the Bible itself states that it is the ultimate and final authority, and I gave as my answer to the question, “Where in the Bible does it teach we must go by the Bible alone?” the reference to Isaiah 8:20.

Isa 8:20  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (KJV, King James Version)

There are some individuals, some churches, some religious organizations which disagree with this Bible truth. I believe they are seriously mistaken.

(2) My second example of where mistaken religions are in error is that they make exclusive claim to the truth.

I suspect that every group is wrong about something. If we are honest seekers after truth the better approach may be to learn from each other. We all can benefit from the insights others have (Proverbs 4:18).  We gain when we are challenged by others who may be more informed than we are through discussion and debate regarding specific issues where we differ in our understanding of the Christian faith (Proverbs 18:17).

Pro 4:18  But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. (KJV)

Pro 18:17  He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him. (KJV)

 

Posted in Apologetics--Christian, Doctrinal Discussions, False Religions | Tagged , , , , | Leave a comment

Atonement as Provision and Benefit

Posted on July 24, 2025 by Jerry

In a discussion today I wrote a response but it would not post there. Perhaps my comment was too long. I saved my work so my efforts would not be lost. If you read what I wrote you may learn some things from the Bible that you did not know before.

My Comment:

I wrote my comment in response to the following very good comment that another participant made:

“The fact is, there are two distinct dimensions of Jesus Christ’s Redemption.

First, Jesus Christ, in his life, death, resurrection, and ascension died for ALL mankind for all times (1 John 2:2; 2 Cor 5:15; 1 Tim 2:6;) WITHOUT EXCEPTION. God died for Christians, Muslims, Baha’i, Ananda Marga Prackaracka Samgha, Wiccans, Blavatsky, Richard Dawkins, transgenders, snowflakes—ALL.”

My Response:

I agree with your statement.

In the Bible, this represents God’s PROVISION of Salvation: it is available for all.

You have cited some of the most applicable Scripture passages which assert this truth:

1Jn 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (KJV)

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (DRB, Douay-Rheims Bible)

1Jn 2:2  and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world. (NET Bible)

1Jn 2:2 He, in his own person, is the atonement made for our sins, and only not for ours, but for the sins of the whole world. (Ronald Knox translation)

1Jn 2:2 And He, Himself, is Atonement concerning our sins; but not concerning ours only, but also concerning the world as a whole. (Lavender’s New Testament)

The Atonement of Christ is not a propitiation, so the last three translations I have cited are preferred as being correct.

For the PROVISION to be received as a BENEFIT, the individual must actively continue to participate in believing and receiving it. Therefore, synergism, not monergism, is the process involved. This is proved by the use of the middle voice in Greek grammar, where the subject takes part in the action of the verb, as at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13, as the condition of receiving the benefit stated in the subjunctive mood, as at John 6:44,

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (KJV)

Joh 6:44 no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day; (YLT, Young’s Literal Translation)

Joh 6:44 No one is able to come to Me unless the Father–the One having sent Me–may draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day. (Lavender’s NT)

Very few English translations properly render the subjunctive mood, “may draw,” a very major error in translation on their part. Note the subjunctive mood in the probable third class condition (as also in John 6:65), “may.” “May” expresses contingency; the “third class condition” expresses probability, but not certainty, because of the contingency. The terms of the contingency are expressed in the near context at John 6:37 and John 6:40 and include continuing belief.

 

 

Posted in Doctrinal Discussions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly | Tagged , , , | Leave a comment

Israel not permanently forsaken

Posted on July 21, 2025 by Jerry

 

I suspect that many posters and those who respond to their posts are not fully familiar with either church history or the Bible so they are not as able to respond to questions or challenges to their posts and responses.

I am just a now long-retired high school English teacher. Nevertheless, I have been reading the Bible seriously since 1953. I still am studying the Bible. I learn something new to me almost every day.

Here is some Scripture that I believe directly addresses your challenge to cite “scripture to support that idea what anyone who rejects the Son is still in communion with God?”

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
Rom 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (KJV)

Note particularly Romans 11:28,

Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

Unbelieving Israel is still beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

I have carefully compiled what are called “cross references” for every verse in the Bible. I present them in my book, The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and I have further expanded those in my digital resource, the Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury.

As I compiled these verses, I retained the verses of my sources, whether I agreed with them or not, so some cross references do not agree with what I know that Scripture actually teaches.

For Romans 11:28, here is the most relevant portion of the cross references I have for the key words “they are beloved” and the key words “for the fathers’ sake”:

they are beloved. Rom 9:5; Rom 9:25, Gen 26:4; Gen 28:14, Exo 20:6, Lev 26:40, 41, 42, Deut 4:31; *Deut 7:7; *Deut 7:8; Deut 8:18; Deut 9:5; +*Deut 10:15; Deut 23:5, Psa 105:8, 9, 10, 11, *Isa 44:21; Isa 49:15, *Jer 11:15; Jer 31:3, Hos 11:9, Amos 9:8, *Mic 7:20, Zec 1:17, *Mal 1:2; +*Mal 3:6, Mrk 10:14, Luk 1:54, 55; Luk 1:68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75.

for the fathers’ sake. Rom 3:2; Rom 9:5; *+Rom 15:8, +*Exo 2:24; Exo 33:13, *Deut 7:8, Isa 63:8, *Dan 9:15, 16, 17, 18.

At the moment I see two exceedingly crucial cross references given for the key words “they are beloved”:

Leviticus 26:40-42
40  If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41  And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42  Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
King James Version

Malachi 3:6
6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
King James Version

The “sons of Jacob” are “not consumed” because God is not finished with the nation of Israel. God has promises to Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant which have not yet been fulfilled, but they will be fulfilled to the person (Abraham) and nation (Israel) to whom the promises were originally given (Acts 7:5. Isaiah 55:3).

Act 7:5  And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

My note on a portion of this text:

him. The point is, that the promise was made personally to Abraham that he would himself inherit the promised land, but Abraham himself never personally possessed the land God promised to him. It is for this reason that God, who cannot lie, must resurrect Abraham and bring him personally into the promised land in order for the Abrahamic Covenant to be fulfilled. How many Bible scholars have failed to notice the explicit statement of Scripture here, which declares that Abraham did not receive the inheritance, and have taught the opposite, and worse, have spiritualized and transformed the covenants into something they were never meant to be, taking to themselves or the church the blessings promised to Abraham and the Jews, but very carefully leaving the curses to Israel, literally interpreted at that (see related notes at **Jos 21:43 note. **1Ki 4:21 note. Isa 60:21 note. Jer 33:21 note). +*Mat 8:11; +*Mat 8:12, +*Rom 4:13.

Now for Isaiah 55:3,

Isa 55:3  Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Many Bible readers are not familiar with just what “the sure mercies of David” are or refer to. Many modern Bible translations actually obscure rather than assist the reader’s understanding of this crucially important Bible text.

In brief, the “sure mercies of David” are a reference to the provisions of the Davidic Covenant. Those referenced are unconditional and are not yet fulfilled but God has promised that they will be.

Now, as for scholarly research I have just completed reading about this subject which goes in depth into the history behind this issue, I highly recommend reading this resource:

Pettegrew, Larry. 2020. Forsaking Israel: How It Happened and Why It Matters. The Woodlands, TX: Kress.

Posted in Bible Promises, Bible Prophecy, Bible Study Tools, Doctrinal Discussions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly, How to Study the Bible | Tagged , , , | Leave a comment

Why Everyone is Wrong about Something–Including Me! Part 3

Posted on July 12, 2025 by Jerry

 

There is an incident recorded in Matthew, Mark, and Luke where Jesus was asked by the religious authorities in Israel, “By what authority do you do these things?”

Mat 21:23  And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
Mat 21:24  And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
Mat 21:25  The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
Mat 21:26  But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
Mat 21:27  And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

Sometimes in the past, I have been asked this very question: “What gives you the authority to try to teach us?” in discussions on the Internet.

Some religious groups, denominations, churches, and perhaps individuals make the claim that they are the authority when it comes to correctly interpreting the Bible.

The same group of individuals who asked me “What gives you the authority to try to teach us?” also asked the very important question, “Where in the Bible does it teach we must go by the Bible alone?”

I answered, “It is very clear that the Bible teaches we must go by what the Bible alone teaches in Isaiah 8:20 and its immediate and related contexts.”

This verse can be better understood if we read it in more than one Bible translation:

Isa 8:20  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (KJV, King James Version)

Isa 8:20 To the law rather, and to the testimony. And if they speak not according to this word, they shall not have the morning light. (DRB, Douay-Rheims Bible)

Isaiah 8:16-20  (Now to guard the prophetic record close, now to seal up these instructions, in the keeping of my disciples! What though the Lord hide his face from the men of Israel? To him I will look, and wait patiently for him; here stand I, and these children the Lord has given me, a portent, a warning sent to Israel by the Lord of hosts, who dwells on mount Sion. Men will bid you consult wizard and diviner, that talk in ghostly voices over their enchantments; Who doubts, they say, God will send his own people answer, an oracle from the dead to the living? By these instructions rather abide, this record of prophecy; who follows other inspiration, shall not see the dawn.) Ronald Knox translation

Isa 8:20  Then you must recall the LORD’s instructions and the prophetic testimony of what would happen. Certainly they say such things because their minds are spiritually darkened. (NET Bible)

The question of what standard we go by to determine the truth is very important.

Posted in Apologetics--Christian, Doctrinal Discussions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly | Tagged , , , , | Leave a comment

Why Everyone is Wrong about Something–Including Me Part 2

Posted on July 8, 2025 by Jerry

 

I want to share with you how I happened to consider this subject. It continues to be a matter of great concern to me because I encounter these issues daily in my own reading and study whether in books or on the Internet.

While I was preparing The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge I encountered two verses that alerted me to the seriousness of this subject:

Ezekiel 14:10  And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him; (KJV, King James Version)

Eze 14:9  “If any prophets are deceived into giving a false answer, it is because I, the LORD, have deceived them. I will remove them from the people of Israel.
Eze 14:10  Both prophets and anyone who consults them will get the same punishment. (GNB, Good News Bible)

Reading this passage and compiling additional cross references convinced me that following the teaching of false prophets and mistaken teachers will result in our being rewarded with the same punishment that God awards the false prophets or teachers.

I came across another passage that relates to this concern, Jeremiah 14:14.

Jeremiah 14:14  Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. (KJV)

Jeremiah 14:14  Then the LORD said to me, “Those prophets are prophesying lies while claiming my authority! I did not send them. I did not commission them. I did not speak to them. They are prophesying to these people false visions, worthless predictions, and the delusions of their own mind. (NET Bible)

I believe God is warning each of us to be very careful about the claims and teachings of those individuals, religious organizations, churches, and denominations that serve to teach us about God and the Bible. Whether knowingly or unknowingly these sources may be teaching a “false vision.”  We must be vigilant and take heed to what we hear and how we hear. There is a standard God has given us by which to judge the correctness of any source of teaching. That standard is found in the Bible.

The Bible is such a vast collection of written divine revelation that no single person can ever hope in a single lifetime to master all there is to know about it. Just the same, the significant truths and doctrines we must believe are quite plainly revealed. Each of us from our own traditions, reading, and experience may know some important facets of truth that many of us have missed.

I look forward your responses to some of the issues that have concerned me because they are often misunderstood. Our combined insights and concerns should prove to be a learning experience for all of us.

 

Posted in Apologetics--Christian, Doctrinal Discussions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly | Tagged , , , | Leave a comment

Why Everyone is Wrong About Something–Including Me!

Posted on July 3, 2025 by Jerry

I am preparing a series of posts which I will title “Why Everyone is Wrong About Something! Including Me.”

This ought to set off some Fireworks for the Fourth of July!

My purpose is to challenge each of us, including myself, to dig deeper into the Bible in an effort to understand it better.

Our Lord Jesus Christ left as His command the directive to “make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:19).

I have long thought that there is nothing in the Bible that I have found so far in my study and reading that suggests that we must pass a test in Systematic Theology, Biblical Theology, Biblical Hermeneutics, or Apologetics in order to qualify to enter heaven or be saved.

I am reminded of a blind lady in Spartanburg, South Carolina, who asked me to come to her home to conduct a meeting for the children in the Projects who lived around her. She wanted me to teach them the gospel. The children loved to sing the songs they had learned to sing in Sunday school. After the meeting, I stayed longer to enjoy fellowship with Mrs. White. I read to her from her Bible. She appreciated that for she had no one else to read the Bible to her.

I fully expect to see Mrs. White in eternity and anticipate more fellowship with her and many others I have had the pleasure of sharing the Gospel with.

This happened many years ago. At the time, the Mayor of Spartanburg specifically requested that the small group of us who came each Sunday to work with the children to keep doing so, even though all others during those extremely difficult times were asked not to do so anymore because of the building racial tensions.

The culture was much different then. Mrs. White and other residents in the Projects were almost upset when I came to the door and knocked first before entering. They expected me to just come in! That must have been an aspect of Southern hospitality.

And so, as I continue this series, I hope all of you will understand that it is not my intent at all to attack any person or faith. It is my intent to challenge myself and all of you with some very interesting yet likely mistaken views I have encountered.

I listen very carefully to those who may disagree with me. I frequently state that if your evidence proves me wrong, I am willing to be corrected and will change my mind. I think all of us need to develop this attitude.

Just yesterday, I began reading a book I have in my Logos Bible software library that is about discipleship. Among many helpful things I am reading in this book, a key principle is that to connect meaningfully with others we must demonstrate that we care about them personally. They must be encouraged by us in such a way that they become delighted when they see us. The book delves into a more modern approach to right-and-left brain factors that impact continued spiritual growth. The book answers the question: why do some believers begin strong and show great initial spiritual growth but fail to continue after eight years or so, while others continue this growth unabated? The authors suggest that the Church at large has focused upon “left-brain” things like Bible study, theology, logic, and the like while failing to excite consistently the “right-brain” which is what triggers the “left-brain’s” motivation, excitement, and commitment about spiritual things. My oldest son sent me a link about a church that is currently applying these principles. I watched the video, saw the reference to this book, and discovered I have it in my Logos library.

Posted in Apologetics--Christian, Christian Living, Principles of Christian Living | Tagged , , , , | 2 Comments

If Jesus is the eternal Son of God where was He in the time of Moses Part 2

Posted on June 22, 2025 by Jerry

 

Muslim Responses to my comment:

Thanks for sharing your view. But let’s take a closer look at those verses. Exodus 23:20 and Judges 2:1 mention an “angel” or “messenger” of the LORD, but there’s no indication that this angel is Jesus. The Hebrew word used is malakh, which simply means “messenger,” and it’s used throughout the Old Testament for all kinds of beings — including prophets, humans, and heavenly angels. Nothing in those verses identifies the angel as Jesus specifically.

In Judges 2:1, the angel speaks on behalf of God, which actually shows he’s representing God, not that he is God. Speaking for someone doesn’t mean you are that person. Also, if Jesus was really the one leading Israel out of Egypt, wouldn’t he or the prophets have said that clearly in the New Testament? But there’s no verse where Jesus ever makes that claim himself.

It feels like your interpretation is being read into the text rather than coming from it. It’s interesting, but without clear scriptural evidence, it’s more theological guesswork than solid proof. [PixelMistakePicasso]

there’s nothing here that links to Jesus. I hope you are not making the mistake of referring to Jesus as Lord used in those verses? [Muniru Adebambo]

My Response:

PixelMistakePicasso I tried to keep my comment above very direct and short. I cannot fault you and others, including my valued friend, Muniru Adebambo, for not appreciating and acknowledging the strength of the evidence represented by my citation of Exodus 23:20 with Judges 2:1.

These two verses, to be fully understood, must be studied in the light of what the rest of the Bible teaches about the subjects they contain. This is so because the full truth about any subject taught in the Bible is not usually taught all at once in one place (whether verse or chapter or even single book). To learn the correct answer to our questions we must carefully consider all the Bible teaches about the question or subject. This is sometimes spoken of as taking into account “the whole counsel of Scripture” (Acts 20:27).

That is why I concluded my last comment by saying:

A study of the cross references I have given in the Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury will enable any Bible reader to trace the abundant evidence in the Bible itself which establishes the truth of my claim.

In this process of careful study of Scripture we must be alert to any Figures of Speech the Bible makes use of. In a study of Exodus 23:20 there is an important Figure of Speech involving the key word “Angel.”

In the cross references for Exodus 23:20 I have identified the Figure of Speech involved with the designation “FS171E12.”

Exo 23:20  Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

From the Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury on the key word “Angel”:

Angel. FS171E12, +Gen 48:16. Exo 23:23, +**Exo 3:2 note, Exo 3:6; *Exo 14:19; Exo 32:34; *Exo 33:2; *Exo 33:14, +**Gen 22:15 note. Gen 24:7; Gen 24:40; *Gen 48:16, Num 20:16; Num 22:23, +*Jos 5:13; +*Jos 5:14; Jos 6:2, +*Jdg 2:1; *Jdg 6:11; *Jdg 6:12; *Jdg 6:14, 15, 16; *Jdg 6:20; *Jdg 6:21; *Jdg 6:23, 1Ch 21:16, Psa 91:11, +*Isa 63:9, Dan 3:25 note. Zec 1:12; Zec 3:1; Zec 3:6; *+Zec 12:8, >Mal 3:1, >Mat 11:10, >Mrk 1:2, >Luk 7:27, *Jhn 1:18, *Act 7:35; *Act 7:38, *1Co 10:9; *1Co 10:10.

Using the Figure of Speech Index for FS171E12 leads to its explanation with further examples of the same Figure at Genesis 48:16,

Gen 48:16  The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The Angel. FS171E12, Synecdoche of the Species F/S 622, A common name is put for a proper one. A name common to many is used of one par excellence. For other instances of this figure see Exo 3:2; Exo 23:20, Jdg 6:11, Mat 21:3; Mat 22:24, Jhn 11:3; Jhn 11:12; Jhn 11:28.

Here are the Bible references cited:

Exodus 3:2
2  And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
King James Version

Exodus 23:20
20  Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
King James Version

Judges 6:11
11  And there came an angel of the LORD, and sat under an oak which was in Ophrah, that pertained unto Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon threshed wheat by the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites.
King James Version

Matthew 21:3
3  And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
King James Version

Matthew 22:24
24  Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
King James Version

John 11:3
3  Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
King James Version

John 11:12
12  Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
King James Version

John 11:28
28  And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
King James Version

I am reminded of what Jesus said as recorded at John 13:13,

John 13:13
13  Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
King James Version

And in this very connection, of what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 12:3,

1Co 12:3  Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Here is the explanatory note I have supplied in the Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury for the key words “the Lord” at 1 Corinthians 12:3,

the Lord. The word kurios, Lord, is that by which the word Jehovah is commonly rendered in the Greek version of the Old Testament. To say Jesus is the Lord, therefore, in the sense of the apostle, is to acknowledge him to be truly God. No one can truly believe and openly confess that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh unless he is enlightened by the Spirit of God (Hodge). Thus only those enlightened by the Holy Spirit can recognize Jesus as Jehovah. Belief in the full deity of the Lord Jesus is the positive test of orthodoxy given by the apostle. **1Co 2:8; **1Co 15:47, +*Neh 9:6, *Mat 7:21, 22, 23, *Luk 6:46, +*Jhn 8:24; +**Jhn 20:28, +**Act 10:37; Act  11:21 note. **Rom 10:9; **Rom 10:10, 2Co 4:5, Php 2:11, +**1Pe 2:3 note with >Psa 34:8.

Anyone who has carefully read the Bible all the way through often enough so as to have a basic understanding of its contents will immediately recognize the correctness of the connections within its text that I have just now shared with you. May the Lord grant you that understanding too.

Posted in Apologetics Issues--Other Faiths, Bible Study Tools, Doctrinal Discussions, False Religions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly, How to Study the Bible | Tagged , , , | Leave a comment

If Jesus is the eternal Son of God, where was He in the time of Moses? Part 1

Posted on June 21, 2025 by Jerry

 

My Comment:

I briefly engaged with two of my long term Muslim friends on Facebook regarding the question of “If Jesus is the eternal son of God, Where was Jesus during Moses’ Time?

Since this discussion on Facebook is relevant to the series I started yesterday, I thought it would be helpful to interject it here today.

The Muslim Challenge:

IF JESUS IS THE ETERNAL SON OF GOD, WHERE WAS HE DURING MOSES’ TIME?

Christians say Jesus is eternally the Son of God, equal with the Father and Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity. They claim He always existed — not just from His birth — and that He was “revealed” in the New Testament.

But here’s the problem…

During Moses’ time, or even Abraham, Noah, or David — there was no clear mention of a “Son of God” who is co-equal with God.

The Old Testament is absolutely silent on the Trinity. No verse ever says:

“God is three persons.”

“Worship the Son.”

“The Messiah will be God in human form.”

In fact, Moses taught pure monotheism:

“Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE.” – Deuteronomy 6:4

No sons, no partners, no three-in-one.

So ask yourself:

Why did none of the prophets ever preach the Trinity?

Why didn’t Moses — called the friend of God — ever mention the Son?

Why didn’t God command people to believe in a three-person deity from the start?

CHRISTIAN RESPONSE (and its weakness):

They usually say:

“God gradually revealed Himself. In the Old Testament He was hidden; in the New Testament He revealed Himself fully through Jesus.”

Seriously?

So you’re telling me that the most important truth about God’s identity — the Trinity — was withheld for thousands of years, and only revealed after Jesus came?

So…

Abraham didn’t know it

Moses didn’t teach it

David never mentioned it

The entire Jewish nation missed it

… but somehow, the Church councils in Rome figured it out?

What kind of God hides His true identity for centuries, only to reveal it through a theological debate in the 4th century?

And don’t forget — even Jesus never said: “I am God, worship me.” He prayed to God, called God “my Father,” and submitted to His will. (John 5:30)

Islam gives the clear, consistent answer:

All prophets preached Tawhid — the oneness of God. No confusion. No contradictions.

Jesus (Isa) is a prophet and messenger — NOT divine, NOT a literal son.

God says clearly in the Qur’an:

“He begets not, nor is He begotten.” (Surah Al-Ikhlas 112:3)

So Christians — before defending “eternal Sonship” — ask yourself:

“Why was the Son of God missing for thousands of years?”

Because He was never there to begin with.

 

My response:

Once again, PixelMistakePicasso, you are not reading the Bible with discernment. You have not carefully compared Scripture with Scripture. I have carefully compared Scripture with Scripture so I know where Jesus was during the time of Moses, even if you claim you do not know.

Question asked of me:

where was Jesus sir?

My answer:

Muniru Adebambo A careful study of the Divine Names as they are employed in the Old Testament or Hebrew Scriptures will show attentive readers that Jesus in His pre-incarnate form was leading the nation of Israel in their journey out of Egypt to the Promised Land. One possible entrance point in a careful study of this subject would be Exodus 23:20 compared with Judges 2:1.

Exodus 23:20
20  Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
King James Version

Judges 2:1
1  And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
King James Version

A study of the cross references I have given in the Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury will enable any Bible reader to trace the abundant evidence in the Bible itself which establishes the truth of my claim.

 

Posted in Apologetics Issues--Other Faiths, Doctrinal Discussions, False Religions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly | Tagged , | Leave a comment

No one can see God but they saw Jesus! Part 1

Posted on June 20, 2025 by Jerry

 

The Text:

Exo 33:20  And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. (KJV)

Exo 33:20  But he said, “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live!” (UASV, Updated American Standard Version)

My Comment:

I have been busy for almost a week discussing this verse and many other Bible passages with a Muslim friend who certainly has a different understanding of this  passage than I do.

I think my Muslim friend makes a mistake in interpretation that is easy to make: he stakes his claim unbendingly upon his chosen interpretation, unable so far to understand that there is a better interpretation available.

The Musim challenge:

NO ONE CAN SEE GOD — BUT THEY SAW JESUS?

Exodus 33:20

“You cannot see My face, for no one may see Me and live.”

Let’s stop here.

This is not a parable. Not poetry. It’s a direct statement from God Himself to Moses — a prophet Christians, Jews, and Muslims all accept.

And it’s clear:

No one sees God. Ever. And lives.

But then the New Testament says:

People saw Jesus.

They touched him.

They ate with him.

They beat him.

They killed him.

So… who was that?

Because if Jesus was God, then either:

This Old Testament verse is false, or

Jesus is not God.

You choose.

Even the New Testament writers accidentally confirm the contradiction:

John 1:18 – “No one has ever seen God.”

Thank you, John.

Now explain how people saw Jesus — and didn’t drop dead.

The real truth?

God is unseen.

Jesus was seen.

Therefore, Jesus is not the God of Moses.

So once again, the Old Testament buries the Trinity.

My response:

My dear friend, PixelMistakePicasso, may I kindly suggest there is a better and more accurate way to understand the Bible than I see you employing.

You are correct when you state that the Bible itself declares in Exodus 33:20,

Exodus 33:20  And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.  (KJV)

Yet, the Bible in both Old Testament and New Testament reports instances of people who saw God and lived:

Genesis 32:30
30  And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
King James Version

Judges 13:22
22  And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
King James Version

Isaiah 6:5
5  Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
King James Version

The answer to this question, has any human being seen God and lived, is YES.

Jesus explained in John 4:24 that “God is spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

Since God is spirit, He is invisible, and Jesus taught that “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him” (John 1:18, KJV).

For “he hath declared him” some modern English translations read “he has made him known.”

A careful study of Scripture demonstrates that when individuals saw God, it is Jesus in His pre-incarnate form that they saw.

I have included the following explanatory note in my Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury at John 1:18,

hath seen God. Note.—That is, hath seen God as He is in Himself, or apart from some form assumed to render Himself visible: and thus this passage and the following references are not contradictory to Gen 32:30, or Exo 24:9, 10, or Exo 33:11, or Mat 5:8. Moreover there is reason to believe that, on the occasions recorded in the Old Testament, it was The Word or Christ who appeared in the form of that nature in which he was afterwards to be revealed. Compare Isa 6:1 with Jhn 12:41, and 1Co 10:4; 1Co 10:9 (De Burgh, p. 226). Such pre-incarnate appearances of Christ are sometimes called Christophanies (Jhn 8:56; Jhn 8:58; Jhn 12:41). For Theophanies see +Gen 12:7 and +Gen 17:1). See also Gen 19:24 note and Gen 22:15 note.

Posted in Apologetics Issues--Other Faiths, Bible Study Tools, Doctrinal Discussions, False Religions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly | Tagged , , | Leave a comment

Daily Bible Nugget #951, Revelation 1:8

Posted on June 11, 2025 by Jerry

 

The Nugget:

Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (KJV)

 

My Comment:

Revelation 1:8 was brought up in a recent discussion on Facebook.

I said:

PixelMistakePicasso Study the Bible a bit more accurately and you will learn that John in the book of Revelation calls Jesus God Almighty.

PixelMistakePicasso replied:

You’re referring to Revelation 1:8, right? Let’s quote it:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

But here’s the thing — that verse is not Jesus speaking. It’s God the Father. Just look at the context:

Revelation 1:1 says this entire revelation was given by God to Jesus.

Verse 4 says: “Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come…” — clearly referring to God, not Jesus.

Verse 5 then says: “…and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness…”

So the “Almighty” in verse 8 refers to the same God who gave the revelation to Jesus, not Jesus himself. The Greek clearly separates the speaker as “the Lord God”, not the “Son”.

Let’s be clear: Nowhere in the Book of Revelation does Jesus say “I am God Almighty.” That’s an assumption, not a quote.

In fact, even in Revelation 3:12, Jesus says:

“The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God… I will write on them the name of my God.”

How can Jesus be God Almighty and still say “my God” four times?

That’s not divine identity — that’s servant and subordinate language.

So no, Revelation doesn’t call Jesus “God Almighty.” The more you study it, the clearer it becomes: Jesus is distinct from God and never once claims to be Him.

Try again.

Quote me a verse where Jesus says “I am God Almighty.” I’ll wait.

 

I replied:

PixelMistakePicasso You ask,

Try again.
Quote me a verse where Jesus says “I am God Almighty.” I’ll wait.

I reply:

Not so fast, my dear friend!

I believe that even Muslims, not to mention Jehovah Witnesses (who also use these arguments) can actually learn to do what I call Real Bible Study.

You correctly identified one of the major texts in Scripture that support my claim, not yours:

Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Note that:

This is Jesus who is speaking.

In my Bible commentary, The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury, I include the following information to demonstrate that this verse (Revelation 1:8) is spoken by Jesus and applies to Him:

I am. This text, according to Daniel Waterland, “is to be interpreted (with all antiquity) of God the Son,” which he proves (1) from the context; (2) from antiquity; (3) from the weaknesses of the reasons for applying this text to the Father.

As to the context, all acknowledge that verse 7 applies to the Son; there is insufficient contextual warrant for making a sudden shift in this verse to avoid the application of divine titles to the Son, as the Arians argue for.

As to antiquity, both Ante-Nicene and Post-Nicene writers concur in applying this text to Christ, such that “never were men more unanimous than the ancients were in this matter; there being no one exception, on record, against it.”

As to reasons for applying this text to the Father, some argue that since in verse 4 the title “which is, which was, and which is to come” applies to the Father, the same title used here must likewise. But this fails to recognize that the same titles are often given to both, as the title “Alpha and Omega” most certainly is (Rev 1:11; Rev 1:17; Rev 2:8; Rev 22:13. See related note on Rev 3:14).

The objection that the title “the Almighty” is always in Scripture applied to the Father, never the Son, is mistaken, for:

(1) “it is mere groundless presumption to suppose that as often as that title is applied to the one God in the Old Testament, it is applied to the Father only: since it may often be understood indifferently either of Father, or Son, or of the whole Trinity”;

(2) “there are several texts of the Old Testament, which we have good reason to believe are to be understood particularly of God the Son. Psalms 24 has by the primitive Fathers been interpreted of Christ. The title Lord of hosts (Kurios dunameon), applied to Christ in that Psalm, is equivalent to Almighty (Kurios pantokrator), as the LXX Interpreters render the same words indifferently by one or other, as may easily be seen in a multitude of instances, by looking into Trommius’s Concordance.” John himself in his Apocalypse, Rev 4:8, alluding to Isa 6:3, where it reads “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts,” gives not Kurios dunameon, (or sabaoth), but Kurios o Theos o pantokrator, Lord God Almighty. John likewise applies the title “Lord of hosts” to Christ, as can be seen by comparing Jhn 12:41 with Isa 6:5. Compare Zec 2:8; Zec 12:5; Zec 12:10 with Jhn 19:34; Jhn 19:37. “These instances are sufficient to check the confidence of such as roundly affirm, without a syllable of proof, that the title of pantokrator, Almighty, is in holy Scripture applied always to the Father only” (Waterland, Works, vol. 2, Sermon VI, “Christ’s Divinity proved from his Titles,” pp. 141-143; “A Second Defence of Some Queries,” pp. 562-565).

In reference to the title “the Almighty” note carefully the explanatory notes and the supporting CROSS REFERENCES I have given in the Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury:

the Almighty. Gr. pantokratōr (S# G3841, 2Co 6:18). The Apocalypse is the only portion of the NT in which pantokratōr occurs, except in 2Co 6:18. It is, however, of frequent occurrence in the Septuagint, and to that book we must look for the determination of its meaning. In Job it is used to translate shadday (S# H7706), the Almighty [Job 8:5]; elsewhere it is employed as the second member of the compound expression kurios pantokratōr which most frequently represents—not translates—the Hebrew compound Jehovah of hosts (see further in Craven, who concludes: From all these facts it is natural to conclude that pantokratōr was used as a term expressive of infinite supremacy, including the two coordinated ideas of universal dominion—God of hosts—and almighty power). The group of titles represents “the Lord Jehovah the God of Hosts,” a combination of Hos 12:5 and Amos 9:5 (Simcox). Rev 4:8; Rev 11:17; Rev 15:3; Rev 16:7; Rev 16:14; *Rev 19:6; *Rev 19:15; *Rev 21:22; Rev 22:12, 13, 14, 15, 16, **+Gen 17:1 with **Gen 19:24 note; Gen 28:3; Gen 35:11; Gen 43:14; Gen 48:3; +Gen 49:25, +*Exo 6:3, Num 24:4, Ruth 1:20, Job 8:5 g. **Psa 50:1 note. Psa 147:5, +*Isa 9:6; Isa 40:26, Hos 12:5, **+>Amos 4:13, LXX. Mat 28:18, Jhn 1:3; Jhn 8:56, Act 7:38, *2Co 6:18 g. Php 3:21.

NOTE PARTICULARLY THE CROSS REFERENCE TO AMOS 4:13, LXX.:

Amos 4:13  For, lo, he that formeth the mountains, and createth the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh the morning darkness, and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, The LORD, The God of hosts, is his name. (KJV)

Amos 4:13
he that. Note: This is a most powerful description of the majesty of Jehovah, the God of hosts. Job 38:4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, Psa 65:6, *Isa 40:12; Isa 42:5, +*Zec 12:1 note.

and createth. Heb. bara, Gen 1:1. Some modern critics allege that this word was not used before the time of Jeremiah; but it is used, besides the Pentateuch, in Psa 51:10; Psa 89:12; Psa 89:47; Psa 102:18; Psa 104:30; Psa 148:5, Ecc 12:1; and in Isaiah frequently (CB). Psa 135:7; Psa 147:18, +Isa 45:18 (*S# H1254). Jer 10:13; Jer 51:16.

wind. or, spirit. Heb. ruach, +Gen 3:8, Pro 30:4, Ecc 3:21, Ezk 37:9 mg. **Jhn 3:8.

and declareth. Psa 7:9; *Psa 139:2, +*Jer 17:10, Dan 2:28, Mat 9:4, Luk 7:39, 40, +*Jhn 2:25.

[CAREFULLY NOTE THE LXX RENDERING CITED NEXT:]

unto men. LXX. adds, “his Christ.” The LXX reads for Amos 4:13, “For behold, I am he that strengthens the thunder, and creates the wind, and proclaims to men his Christ, forming the morning and the darkness, and mounting on the high places of the earth, The Lord God Almighty is his name” (Bagster, Septuagint with Apocrypha Greek and English, p. 1088).

that maketh. *Amos 5:8; Amos 8:9, Exo 10:22; Exo 14:20, Isa 5:30, Jer 13:16.

darkness. +Exo 10:22, +Pro 20:20.

and treadeth. Deut 32:13 <rp. Deut 33:29 <rp. *Mic 1:3, Hab 3:19.

The Lord. Amos 3:13; Amos 5:8; Amos 6:8; Amos 9:6, *Isa 47:4; Isa 48:2, *Jer 10:16; Jer 51:19.

The God of hosts. LXX. renders, “The Lord God Almighty.” 2Sa 7:26, 27; Jer 31:35; Jer 50:34; Hos 12:5; Zec 2:8, 9; Zec 2:11; Zec 3:7; Zec 3:9, 10; Zec 13:7; Mal 3:1 all have “Lord (or Lord God) Almighty” where the Hebrew reads “Lord of Hosts” (+Psa 24:10). The Watchtower claim that Jesus is called “the mighty God” (Isa 9:6) but never “Almighty God” is proven false for John cites this very passage (Amos 5:13) from the LXX. in Rev 1:8 and applies this title to our Lord Jesus Christ. The LXX. usage and renderings show that “Almighty God” and “Lord of Hosts” were by them considered equivalent. >Rev 1:8 note.

is his name. +*Exo 6:3 note. Exo 15:3 <rp. +Psa 68:4; +*Psa 83:18.

LINK:

https://www.facebook.com/alex.turner.7712826/posts/pfbid02vac2ag5kdfqnxMMFQFe6C7e9DrzjsMHBakq3CL6nRbXZEzpizqcSMRiToXv46ny6l?comment_id=740525254967520&notif_id=1749606777721108&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif

LINK TO RELATED REAL BIBLE STUDY PRIOR POST:

https://www.realbiblestudy.com/?p=1718

 

 

Posted in Apologetics Issues--Other Faiths, Daily Bible Nuggets, Doctrinal Discussions, False Religions, How to Interpret the Bible Correctly | Tagged , , | Leave a comment