Real Bible Study

The Nugget:

Mar 2:27　 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:　

Mar 2:28　 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.　

My Comment:

Jesus Christ as the Son of Man declared He is Lord of the Sabbath. As such, He has authority to bring us new revelation, revelation recorded for us in the New Testament. The New Testament shows by direct example as well as by omission that for genuine believers in Jesus Christ, observance of the Seventh-Day Sabbath is no longer required. Christians may worship God on any day of the week they so choose, including every day! Practice as recorded in the New Testament shows conclusively that the Apostles met for specifically Christian worship on the First Day of the week, and that practice has continued until this day. The First Day keeps in constant memory the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ arose from the dead on the first day of the week, “the third day since these things were done” (Luke 24:21).

There has been a continuing but now completed discussion regarding the Seventh Day Sabbath issue. I wrote several responses during the discussion thread. I thought it would be good to share what I wrote here for future ease of reference.

Now that I have transcribed that discussion here below, I am amazed at how long this post is. Despite the length, including considerable repetition for good measure, this ought to teach anyone who will take the time to read it just what the Bible says about this issue.

The Challenge:

“If we follow Christ should we not walk as he and the apostles walked ? We know if Christ didn’t keep the sabbath this would have been transgression of the law making him a sinner . Our rest in Christ is speaking in a spiritual sense because through Christ we attain the Holy Spirit and it is the spirit that changes our heart so it is not us that does good but the spirit within us.”

“Jerome Smith are you implying Paul didn’t honor the sabbath ?? And you are aware the sabbath was set apart sanctified at creation and kept prior to the law.” (Rali Mosley)

My Responses:

My response to Mr. Mosley:

 

Mr. Mosley’s response to me:

 Jerome Smith you understand that would make Paul a liar right ?

My response to Mr. Mosley:

 Rali Mosley, if you are in error then what Paul has to say may seem like a lie. But Paul always tells the truth.

Mr. Mosley’s response to me:

 Jerome Smith you understand that would make Paul a liar right ?

When Paul was accused of teaching against the law he went to go take a Nazarite vow and paid for the other two to take there’s

 Jerome Smith “And they neither found me in the temple disputing with anyone nor inciting the crowd, either in the synagogues or in the city. Nor can they prove the things of which they now accuse me. But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭24:12-14‬ ‭

 Jerome Smith “but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭21:21-24‬

Please don’t try and make Paul out to be a liar . He walked orderly and kept the law which included honoring the sabbath.

 Jerome Smith Thoughts ??

‭ TruthSeekers Read, help ya brotha out.

My response to Mr. Mosley:

Of course, Paul was not a liar. Paul did reach out to his fellow Israelites in his attempt to win them to Christ. But that has nothing to do with the issue of Christians being obligated today to keep the Seventh Day Sabbath as a matter of law-keeping.

I believe I made reference above to Paul’s statement in Galatians 4:9, 10, 11. There he commanded that Gentile Christians must not involve themselves in observing Jewish days and seasons, the expression includes the Seventh Day sabbath observance.

The commandment to keep the Sabbath was given exclusively to the Jewish nation and those living within its borders. The Fourth Commandment was never given as a commandment to Christians.

There are no instances of the Fourth Commandment being stated in the imperative mood in the Greek text of the New Testament as a commandment addressed to Christians.

Paul warned against any attempt to impose the observance of the Fourth Commandment Sabbath Law given exclusively to the Jews upon Christians.

Those who today attempt to make the Sabbath Observance a central issue as though it is an obligation to be placed upon other Christians are not walking according to the Gospel of Christ and often have missed the whole message of the transforming power of the Gospel through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is the emphasis of the New Testament.

Rali Mosley, here is a passage I’m sure you know about that states the motivation behind what Paul did:

Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

 

Mr. Mosley’s response to me:

I just showed you where Paul said he didn’t teach against the law and kept it himself.

My response to Mr. Mosley:

Rali Mosley, thank you for reading my comments. You must read and understand the Bible in terms of what it says, not what you or I may want it to say. We must believe and teach according to the balance of truth presented in the New Testament and the Bible as a whole.

Paul was a Jew, and in order not to offend the Jews, he did some things that we as Christians today have absolutely no obligation to do. Paul never commanded his Gentile converts to make vows and go to the Jewish Temple and follow the prescribed rites in the manner that he himself did.

Every false doctrine and every false cult or religion or belief will fail the test of matching the balance of emphasis upon the doctrine or teaching involved as given in the Bible itself.

Your emphasis upon the Seventh Day Sabbath observance and the Fourth Commandment does not agree with the balance and emphasis of New Testament teaching.

I have stated that the Fourth Commandment regarding Seventh Day Sabbath observance is never repeated in the New Testament as a commandment.

I have stated that there is not even a single example of specifically Christian worship involving participation in the Lord’s Supper or Communion taking place on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Now, in the logical form which I have expressed my argument, my argument is very easy to refute. All you have to do is produce just ONE example of the Fourth Commandment stated as a command in the imperative mood in the New Testament.

Or, you may produce evidence to show that Christians met specifically for Christian worship (as evidenced by partaking of the Lord’s Supper or Holy Communion) on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

My comment that the Sabbath issue does not represent the emphasis given in the New Testament is based upon the fact that such an emphasis is simply not there in the text. If this were a matter of concern, surely the new Gentile Christians would have been in need of instruction in this matter and evidence of this instruction would be reflected in the New Testament. Gentile Christians surely would have been cautioned against Sabbath-breaking. But no such instruction is found in the New Testament.

The motivation which underlies what Paul himself did is well expressed by what he wrote in 1 Corinthians 9:22,

“To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.”

What Paul specifically did in those special and individual particular historical circumstances does not form a rule of conduct we are to replicate today. Paul instructed us to be followers of him as he was a follower of Christ. Christ brought new revelation through the Apostle Paul which has been preserved in the letters of Paul found in our New Testament.

Paul’s emphasis is the witness to the bodily resurrection of Christ as the supreme evidence of the truth of the Gospel. That is what we should be emphasizing today.

 

Mr. Mosley responded to me:

Paul’s own words make it very problematic for anyone to argue he didn’t keep the sabbath.

Before I address what you said can we first agree your statement that Paul didn’t keep the sabbath was in error?

 

My response to Mr. Mosley:

Produce your evidence that refutes the two claims I have made:

(1) The Fourth Commandment regarding keeping the seventh day Sabbath is never once found repeated in the form of a commandment (in the imperative mood in the Greek NT) anywhere in the New Testament.

(2) There is not a single example of Christians meeting for specifically Christian worship (as evidenced by partaking of the Lord’s Supper or Holy Communion) on the Sabbath.

Now produce your evidence from the New Testament record that refutes either or both of my assertions. But be very careful to produce evidence that fulfills the requirements.

READ MY CLAIM ABOUT PAUL very carefully: Paul NEVER kept the Seventh Day Sabbath as a matter of specifically Christian worship (involving participation in the Lord’s Supper or Communion).

Nothing you have presented refutes my claim about Paul whatsoever. It is your misreading of my claim, not my claim itself, that is in error.

 

Mr. Mosley’s response to me:

ok so then we agree Paul Kept the sabbath ??

A simple yes or no will suffice

And let’s be clear the burden of proof is on you. The sabbath was made holy at creation it was kept prior to the law being given and was kept by Christ and all the apostles. Christ says he didn’t come to destroy the law Paul says we establish the law. Yet you say because we don’t see a commandment that was kept before the commandments were given commanded again it is void ??? If you follow Christ you will walk as he walked and we know he kept the sabbath. We actually see Mary wait until the sabbath was over before visiting Christ tomb.

This is what happens when you ask questions that causes one to think for themselves and not copy and paste what they learned at Bible study.

My response to Mr. Mosley:

And just who is “copy and pasting what they learned at Bible study”?

I write my own material from scratch based upon my own long and careful study of the Bible.

So far, you have NOT addressed my challenge at all.

Kindly go back and actually READ with understanding what I wrote and provide the evidence I requested to refute my two assertions.

Until you do, you have failed to address my argument, and have lost the debate.

 

Mr. Mosley’s response to me:

lol first this was a dialogue not a debate . Second as I said the burden of proof is on you and none of your answers sufficed any of the questions I’ve asked . But if saying I lost the debate is pleasing to your flesh then fine I lost lol

 It took 6 hours to come up with that excuse ??

My response to Mr. Mosley:

Mr. Mosley’s response to me:

Maybe you aren’t understanding something here . As I said prior simply saying it’s not directly commanded in the New Testament some how makes the commandment void is folly . You must first show where the change was made in the commandment we see the sabbath being observed all throughout the New Testament Jews and gentiles alike observing the sabbath . Again the burden of proof would be on you sir.

So you are saying Paul lied to avoid conflict.

To address your questions even though the burden of proof is on you .
1) listen to what you said “ nowhere in the nt is there a command to Christians to keep the [Sabbath or Fourth] commandment” 🤔.
It’s a commandment so you have to show where any commandment contained within the moral law / Decalogue was commanded to be changed. That’s how it works my friend .

2. The fact is we see Jews and gentiles alike honoring the sabbath in the New Testament. You are asserting it wasn’t for Christian worship. I think first you have to deal with the term Christian which didn’t come until later and was said as an insult . But it simply means followers of Christ . So again did Christ honor the sabbath? If so are you walking as he did ?

Also the first day of the week was never thought to be the new sabbath it was simply a day they gathered together to discuss finances, etc. and most likely they did that on that day because they honored the sabbath the previous day.

My response to Mr. Mosley:

Thank you for your good replies and additional challenges to my position.

(1) The Seventh Day Sabbath has not been changed to the First Day of the week. It remains as it was originally instituted for the Jews in Israel. It remains still in force for the Jews today, so it has not been changed.

(2) Jesus was a Jew. During His earthly life he kept the commandments perfectly. Jesus observed the Seventh Day Sabbath in accordance with the Ten Commandment Law.

(3) Paul was a Jew, a Hebrew of the Hebrews, a Pharisee of the Pharisees, and while he lived as a Jew before he met Jesus Christ on the Damascus Road he surely kept the Jewish law fastidiously. Paul received new revelation directly from our Lord Jesus Christ, and that new revelation is reflected in the doctrines taught in the Pauline Epistles.

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

We, therefore, must study and obey the new revelation given by our Lord Jesus Christ through Paul as preserved in the Pauline Epistles and the Book of Acts.

(4) If anyone today believes they should carefully observe the Fourth Commandment as given in the Law of Moses, they should realize what is meant by keeping the Sabbath holy. There are many specifics given in the Old Testament Scriptures that detail how the Jews were instructed to keep the weekly Sabbath. It is highly unlikely that there are any Christians today who actually fulfill the stipulated requirements that accompany the command to keep the Sabbath holy as given to the Jews in the Hebrew Scriptures.

You are correct that the First Day of the Week was never regarded as the new Sabbath. Gentile Christians were never taught to observe the Jewish Sabbath. In fact, Paul quite sternly commands his converts not to do so in Galatians 4:9, 10, 11. The First Day of the Week is observed by Christians in the New Testament as the day for Christians to gather for specifically Christian worship. The nature of those worship services can be discerned from the record of their observance recorded in the Pauline Epistles. The services included the singing of hymns, prayer, preaching of the Gospel, mutual instruction and correction in the ministry of the “one another gifts,” and so forth. The First Day of the Week had special significance for Christians then and now because that marks the day that our Lord Jesus Christ rose bodily from the dead “on the third day.”

As for the term “Christian,” it appears as early as Acts 11:26. The term also occurs at Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16. The term simply means “follower of Christ,” and does not necessarily have any negative association with its first use as recorded in Acts that I can see.

As for walking as Christ did, just because Jesus observed the Seventh Day Sabbath as an obedient Jew does not at all mean that Christians today who are not Jews must do the same.

We are not under the law, but under grace:

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

I have established by your lack of specific response to my two challenges that, at least so far, you have found it impossible to answer them.

Of the Ten Commandments, nine commandments are repeated in the New Testament for our admonition and instruction. One commandment is never repeated in any listing of the ten commandments in the NT, neither by Christ nor any of the NT writers. The reason is plain to read: the commandments which were against us have been nailed to the cross (see Colossians 2:14 and 2 Corinthians 3:7 and its context).

Those who truly believe in our Lord Jesus Christ have become new creations in Him. True faith results in regeneration (Titus 3:5) and transformation (2 Corinthians 5:17), such that we walk in newness of life, empowered by the Holy Spirit to produce the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22, 23). This is the focus of our new life in Christ, not law-keeping (Galatians 2:21). We are now free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2).

Mr. Mosley replied to me:

ok so you agree Israel should keep the sabbath 👍🏽
The revelation Paul received was not and could not contradict the Torah as Christ and Paul both said they believe all things in the law and prophets and neither came to destroy .
You stated Paul told converts not to keep sabbath in ga 4:9 this is a grave error and completely out of context . This is why audience relevancy is very important.
We must first understand who Paul was writing to. Former pagans
“But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, Gal 4:9.
Notice he says they didn’t know God prior so why would they be turning back to the sabbath that makes no sense. Context is key.

Sadly most don’t understand what Paul meant by saying we are not under the law. Romans 7 in its totality explains this. The law of sin no longer has dominion over us because we have attained the spirit and now we are given the grace to repent.
Hebrews 10 tells us if we sin willfully there is no more sacrifice.
Gal 5 tells us the lawless will not inherit the kingdom, as does Rev 22:14 .
God created the sabbath for us it was not meant to be burdensome it’s sad most reject the gift god gave.

I wrote this response to Mr. Mosley:

Mr. Mosley made this response to me:

Festivals in ancient Rome were a very important part of Roman religious life during both the Republican and Imperial eras, and one of the primary features of the Roman calendar. Feriae (“holidays” in the sense of “holy days”; singular also feriae or dies ferialis) were either public (publicae) or private (privatae). State holidays were celebrated by the Roman people and received public funding. Games (ludi), such as the Ludi Apollinares, were not technically feriae, but the days on which they were celebrated were dies festi, holidays in the modern sense of days off work. Although feriae were paid for by the state, ludi were often funded by wealthy individuals. Feriae privatae were holidays celebrated in honor of private individuals or by families.[1] This article deals only with public holidays, including rites celebrated by the state priests of Rome at temples, as well as celebrations by neighborhoods, families, and friends held simultaneously throughout Rome Feriae were of four kinds:

Stativae were annual holidays that held a fixed or stable date on the calendar. Calendars helped back then.
Conceptivae were annual holidays that were moveable feasts (like Easter on the Christian calendar, or Thanksgiving in North America); the date was announced by the magistrates or priests who were responsible for them.
Imperativae were holidays held “on demand” (from the verb impero, imperare, “to order, command”) when special celebrations or expiations were called for.[2]
One of the most important sources for Roman holidays is Ovid’s Fasti, an incomplete poem that describes and provides origins for festivals from January to June at the time of Augustus.

Manage

Mr. Mosley made this response to me:

And as I stated previously the burden of proof would be on you, so you would have to show where the change in days occurred. Now I know you are saying the sabbath didn’t change but you said “properly taught Christians worship on the first day of the week.” This infers that there was a change in days which one should worship.

My first statements were never addressed:

1) the sabbath was made holy at creation prior to the commandments.

2) the sabbath was observed prior to the law being given to Moses at Sinai.

If we see it was holy before the law of Moses and we see it being before the law was given to Moses at Sinai . How can we take it upon ourself to say because it wasn’t commanded AGAIN it has become void. I think Paul would say god forbid rather we establish it.
The New Testament is clear as I stated previously: the sabbath was made for man by our creator why reject what he made for us ??

Pastor Anderson made the following comment to Mr. Mosley:

You are selective In Your thinking. No one never said that you could not worship on Saturday. The problem is when you seek to judge others in relation to the CHRISTIAN CHURCH following the practice of the Apostles (early church) worshiping and breaking bread on the first day of the week (Sunday). As you well know these were Jews. You may [need] to use a time capsule and go back to the first century to correct things and tell the Lord he rose on the wrong day. I Applaud professor Smith who have exhausted biblical truth on you for days on my original post. You could learn something, if you parked the “I know mind set.”  He is the only reason I didn’t turn off notification on my own post.

Mr. Mosley responded:

I would say you should take your own advise my brotha . As I stated the text he used Gal 4:9 is clearly not speaking to people that were keeping the sabbath prior. 
Secondly I am not judging you Christ will do that. Breaking bread and fellowship is one thing that does not change the fact the sabbath is set apart and was created for us . Continue to reject the gift of god [if] you want.

[My response to Mr. Mosley, here on Real Bible Study, not posted on Facebook:

Some very good scholars and modern commentaries would agree with you that the Galatians as unsaved Gentiles before the ministry of Paul to them with the gospel of salvation did not observe the Jewish Sabbath.

What those scholars and you have failed to see is that Paul is telling them that for them to step back from the Gospel truth he had taught them and to instead follow the Judaizers by observing the Jewish Seventh-Day Sabbath was tantamount to forsaking our Lord Jesus Christ to now follow a very mistaken idea promoted by the Judaizers, namely, to follow the Law of Moses in addition to the commands of Christ. Paul said that would put them in a position even worse than they were in as pagan Gentiles and that this would result in the loss of their salvation.]

The disputant (Rali Mosley) addressed this comment to Pastor Robert Anderson:

The difference is you were taught by a man; my only teacher is the Holy Spirit and the Word of God . You guys are merely parakeeting what you learned in seminary whether you recognize it or not. And that is why you would be the one to suffer from selective thinking cause a man taught you how to think. Hence, Pastor Moss is no different than Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell or Muhammad. When we get our understanding from men and not the Holy Spirit we are destined to be in error.

Pastor Anderson responded before I did with the following comment:

Stop lying on the Holy Spirit and following every lesson we put up. Ignorance can lead to arrogance; YOU should be so blessed as to be taught biblically by the likes of Pastor Moss, Professor Smith, and others. You show your ignorance in putting these men in the same category of Charles Russell and Paula White. But I understand your childish tactics. But Neither Moss or Smith needs defending, because they don’t point people to themselves, skin color, organizations, etc. These two men point to one person, Jesus Christ. You have been coming from the background on our FB lives for over a year claiming humility, but are here as a serpent in disguise. So since you won’t unfriend us and we are false teachers, I’m going to help you. I’ll block you out of love. You can thank me later.

The points you suggest I did not address I believe I actually did address.

(1) Genesis 2:3 speaks of God’s resting from his act of the creation of the earth. It does not constitute a command to keep the Seventh Day Sabbath. Actually, the Hebrew word for Sabbath does not occur in the Book of Genesis. Most importantly, there is no evidence in the Book of Genesis of the keeping of any weekly observance of a stated day of complete rest.

It is the case that what is said in Genesis 2:3 is appealed to at the giving of the Ten Commandment Law in Exodus 20:11. When the Ten Commandment Law is repeated in Deuteronomy 5:12, 13, 14, 15, where the fact that God delivered Israel from Egypt is the appeal.

In both instances, an appeal is made to what we might today call a “type.”

But notice that in Deuteronomy the Fourth Commandment indicates just for whom this commandment has been given: those who had been slaves in Egypt, those the Lord delivered as a nation from Egyptian slavery.

None of us today among Christian Gentiles are a part of that group! That constitutes some evidence that the Law of the Sabbath does not apply to us, for it was given exclusively to Israel. This is also stressed in Deuteronomy 5:6.

Take a look at Deuteronomy 5:3,

Deut 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Here are my notes and cross references for Deuteronomy 5:3 from “The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury,”

Deuteronomy 5:3

The Lord. Deut 11:10, Exo 34:10.

made not. Deut 29:10-15, Gen 17:7; Gen 17:21, Psa 105:8-10, Jer 32:38, 39, 40, Mat 13:17, Rom 4:23, 24, Gal 3:17-21, Heb 8:8, 9.

this covenant. Deut 29:1, Exo 34:10, Jos 24:25, 2Ki 11:17, 2Ch 23:16, Est 9:27, Jer 31:32; Jer 34:13.

with our fathers. Deut 8:16, Gen 15:15, **Neh 9:13; **Neh 9:14; Neh 10:29, +2Pe 3:4.

but with us. This is a most clear statement that the Law was given first on this occasion at Mount Horeb to Moses, and never given at a prior time, including the Sabbath commandment, an affirmation confirmed by the combined witness of the following Parallel Passages. +*Deut 5:2, %+*Gen 26:5, **Neh 9:13; **Neh 9:14, *Jer 11:4; Jer 34:13, **Eze 20:9, 10, 11, 12; **Eze 20:20, **Mal 4:4, **Rom 5:13; **Rom 5:14.

even us. Jer 31:32.

here. Deut 11:7.

live this day. Deut 26:17; Deut 29:12; Deut 29:15, Heb 12:19.

(2) “the sabbath was observed prior to the law being given to Moses at Sinai.”

Your second point I have now answered from Scripture, for my note at Deuteronomy 5:3 for the keywords “but with us” provides the answer with Scriptural proof in the form of the cross references I have supplied. The Bible directly states that the Law was first given at Sinai, not previously, and not previously given to “our fathers.” This should settle the question.