Is the Bible true fact or historical fiction?
“And that why scriptures are the dumbest thing man has ever created.”
“Perhaps you have not taken the time to get to know the Scriptures by carefully reading and studying them for yourself.”
“trust me yes i have ive read it cover to cover 4 times the subtuigent also torah the dead sea scrolls for 15 yrs the apocrypha and hebrew translations ive did this for my self and took my utmost time in studying it old and new”
“I’m glad to read that you have spent time reading the Bible. What happened to bring you to your present opinion?”
“comparative study to outside influences, the time period, the geographical loctaions, comparative study of the culture and surronding cultures, and simply physics , and last common sense”
“ i actully was trying to prove the bible right and found the opposite”
“That is a good start. I have studied the same and come to the opposite conclusion! I would suggest the possibility that you may not have read one of the classic works written in defense of the Bible and its divine inspiration. I first learned about these when I bought and read Irwin H. Linton’s book, A Lawyer Examines the Bible. I wish this book were still in print.
He suggests such titles as Simon Greenleaf, The Testimony of the Evangelists.
David Nelson, The Cause and Cure of Infidelity.
George Lyttleton, The Conversion of Saint Paul.
Gilbert West, The Resurrection of Christ.
Archibald Alexander, Evidences of the Christian Religion.
Mark Hopkins, Evidences of Christianity.
Arthur T. Pierson, Many Infallible Proofs.
All, or most of the above, are available to download free at Google Books.
Have you read any of these works?
I have found that each of these books most certainly and unanswerably prove the Bible right. I hope you will consider them, as I have.
I have discussed these matters at my little blog at Real Bible Study which I invite you to visit and leave comments or questions for further discussion if you wish.”
“ill take you up on that offer but to contrary thise books sound more of bible aplogist coming from a believers point of view which would skew rational thinking i recommend researching history towards the culture and people that hebrews were around because thise cultures gave way for the bible to exist also compare the content of the bible to eygpt babylonian and sumerian mythos and culture you will find that the bible is compiled of all 3 of these cultures also some peagan rome symbolgy added later i will surly look into those books and your blog”
“I have read very much on the topic you mention, the cultural background of the Bible and its contemporaneous cultures. I have a huge personal print library of my own here. I have many more books (15,578 I think I now have) in my Logos Bible software library. I was a history and English teacher in Detroit at the high school level for many years, from 1962 until 2001. So I have had a long time interest in these things. I taught at Cass Technical High School where I was asked to sponsor the Comparative Religions Club. I was also asked by the school administration to sponsor the Bible Discussion Club. I also sponsored the Astronomy Club. Now, I still don’t know much about astronomy (but my students sure did!). But I have made a life-long careful study of comparative religions as well as the Bible. But I am still learning, and always look forward to learning something new.
I also taught history at Southeastern High School. It was discovered that because of the way I was teaching my students world and American history, my students greatly improved their reading comprehension. The Principal, Isaac Wordlaw, called me into his office and showed me that Southeastern High School was the most improved in reading comprehension of Detroit’s 22 high schools according to information printed in the then current issue of his “Principal’s Notes.” The improvement was traced to the students in my classes. As a result, I was made a Reading Specialist and served in that capacity for a number of years until I was shot in the head and was off teaching for nearly five years.
I returned to teach at Denby High School where I taught English. I was made a writing specialist, and served with several other teachers across the whole State of Michigan each year to set the writing standards on the MEAP Test.
I have read a number of books by Hendrik Kraemer on comparative religions and cultures:
World Cultures and World Religions
The Christian Message in a Non-Christian World
Why Christianity of All Religions?”
“oh wow i see im dealing with a real scholar so if i may ask what is your opinion on proffessor bart erhmans research , books and papers also have you read any of dr yosef ben yacanaan ‘s work”
“I am most familiar with Dr. Bart Erhman’s work. I have answered his positions in the past in some of my Internet postings. They may also be preserved on my own website that I mentioned. I have studied the matters pertaining to the authenticity of the text of the New Testament for much longer than he has. I began a scholarly study of this subject in 1954 or 1955 and have a whole walll of works on the ancient texts of the NT, critical texts, and textual criticism here in my library room. I studied with my scholar friend Mr. G. E. Hoyer for over 30 years.
More than that, I have a whole library in my Logos Bible Software, including a work of some 17,000 pages which gives every textual reading from all the major manuscripts in the world pertaining to the New Testament text.
I would kindly say to Professor Bart Ehrleman that he has not done his homework. I have.”
“i must go and check out work but now im at work but i will be checking your work out belive me”
“Thank you for your kind responses.
You mentioned above,
“ill take you up on that offer but to contrary thise books sound more of bible aplogist coming from a believers point of view which would skew rational thinking”
Two of the authors of classic defenses of the truth of the Bible and Christianity that I included in the list I shared with you above were not Christians. They set out to disprove the Bible and Christianity. As a result of their researches they were solidly converted to belief in Christ and the Bible. The two authors I refer to are Gilbert West and George Lyttleton. Their arguments are unanswerable. I must confess, though, that you have to make a real effort to read these older works. They sometimes write in long sentences and long paragraphs. But I stuck it out and was able to understand them just fine.
I was motivated to begin such studies for myself when I collected a whole shelf full or more of books by atheists. These are long book shelves made of four-foot stair tread lumber. One of the sets I first read was by Robert Ingersoll. I found that a writer named Bishop Watson answered his arguments very convincingly.
Richard Watson, Watson’s Apology for Christianity.
The word “Apology” means to set forth arguments in defense of Christianity by answering arguments against it by presenting evidence for it by using logic, evidence, and reason.”
“ logic evidence and reason are all in my argument as to why the bible is historical fiction and also illogical fallacies i mean evidence as in the racial part of the bible who those people where and what they look like determines alot and where they got those ideas an example of this would be moses and his marriage to an ethiopian woman his growing up eygpt for the most part of his life would bring the question of where moses got his ideas from was he influenced by eygptian thought it would seem so being he was raised in pharohs house like a grandson or son so he would have to know maat and eygptian principals thats just inevitable when one studies the eygptian role in the biblical narrative it couldnt have been a hebrew isrealite nation without egypt so i would conclude that his ten commandments his torah or old testament was influenced by african thought being that eygpt is the daughter of ethiopia sudan and cush just in his exploits alone you can see that his story is borrowed from african folklore and mythos also with the surrounding cities and cultures ie Babylon and sumeria”
“Christianity is simply a belief not historical fact or meant to be taken literal”
I believe that the Bible account is quite clear that Moses did not get his ideas from the Egyptian culture. The Israelites were slaves in Egypt. God miraculously delivered the Israelites out of Egypt under the leadership of Moses at the appointed and predicted time by the power of God.
An important author, Robert Dick Wilson, wrote on the reliability of the Hebrew Bible. Irwin Linton, author of A Lawyer Examines the Bible, lists them as follows:
Is the Higher Criticism Scholarly?
A Scientific Investigation of the Old Testament
Anyone who manages to read, even study, these works by Robert Dick Wilson will come to a profound and fully convinced faith in the accuracy and reliability of the Old Testament.
And as for Christianity simply being a belief not historical fact or meant to be taken literally, I must say that the researches of Sir William Ramsey among many other scholars have totally demolished any such claim.
“did moses not grow up in eygpt in pharohs house for 40 yrs yes or no”
Opening poster commented:
“you going have to fall back from these guys. Nobody REALLY debate with them because their lack of knowledge. They only go by naysayers. You good brother, same your time for someone more challenging”
My response to commenter:
That is the historical record. But don’t miss the further consideration given in the Bible at Hebrews 11:23-29,
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king’s commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
See also Acts 7:22,
Act_7:22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
Moses clearly retained his Hebraic faith and did not succumb to the pagan influences of Egypt’s culture.
My response to Opening Poster:
I am thankful you are reading with understanding what I have posted here. I hope others will do the same.
God tells us in His Word the Bible that every person is supremely valuable in God’s sight. Just like Jesus said, a person is worth more than the whole world.
Jesus came to seek and to save those who are lost (Luke 19:10). If just one person is convinced to believe the Bible and so come to true faith in Christ, that soul that has been saved as a result is worth more than the whole world.
Opening poster responded:
yes brother I understand your point well. Even within Reading and doing my research you are most definitely on point. I myself could have challenge them, but it’s pointless on many levels.
My response to opening poster:
We will find out in eternity how God looks upon those who have been given the chance to learn the truth but have either accepted it to His glory, or rejected it, to their everlasting loss.