The Nugget:
Proverbs 8:9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
My Comment:
The ninth proof of the doctrine of the Perspicuity of Scripture is that the Bible declares itself to be plain (NTSK, Topic Number 1118, page 1598).
If the Scripture declares that it is plain to him that understandeth, then a study of just who God says is the person who understandeth is very much in order. That study can be made by consulting the cross references given for this verse below. One of the most important of those cross references is made to Proverbs 28:5, “Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the Lord understand all things.” A verse like Proverbs 28:5 links the ability to understand the Bible to personal character. Those who are evil won’t understand Scripture. Those who understand not judgment is a reference to those who do not understand justice, particularly God’s justice. Those who seek the Lord will understand Scripture.
The Scripture is right to those that find knowledge. There are many who are busily engaged in their attempt to literally “rewrite the script” that God has given by His own declaration in His Word. People, churches and denominations object to some doctrines plainly taught in the Bible, such as the doctrine of eternal punishment. They do not possess the understanding that Abraham clearly had when Abraham asked the significant question, “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25). Rather, they take it upon themselves to judge the supreme Judge, and contradict what He has explicitly revealed about what He plans to do (John 3:36). They take it upon themselves to rewrite God’s character, focusing on the comfortable attribute of God’s love, and ignoring or suppressing God’s attributes of justice and righteousness and holiness. The Seventh-day Adventists go astray on this issue today as did their founder Ellen G. White, as do the Jehovah’s Witnesses of the Watchtower Society, and no doubt many others, including those contemporary Evangelical writers and leaders who commend the message of books written by Edward Fudge, like his title The Fire that Consumes, in denial of unending conscious punishment in hell as spoken of by our Lord Jesus Christ most plainly (Matthew 25:46). Peter gave a severe warning against those who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).
The message of the Scripture will be sufficiently plain to any reader who will read and study the Bible apart from denominational and cultic sources and commentary that “poison the well” by wresting the Scripture, by denying what it plainly means.
That is why I encourage you to study the Bible using a plain text edition first.
For those who desire to DIG DEEPER into this subject:
(1) Consult the cross references given in Nelson’s Cross Reference Guide to the Bible on page 657 for Proverbs 8:9.
(2) Consult the cross references given in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge on page 699 or in Logos 5 Bible software for Proverbs 8:9.
(3) Lacking access to those two resources, consult the cross references for this passage as I have developed them as given below:
Proverbs 8:9. all plain. Pr 1:7. 2:6. 4:11. *Pr 14:6. 15:14, 24. 17:24. 18:1, 2, 15. Dt 27:8. 30:11. Jb 26:3. **Ps 19:7, 8. *Ps 25:12-14. 27:11. 102:18. **Ps 119:98-100, 104, 105, 130. *Is 35:8. 42:16. **Is 45:19. Je 14:14n (point 5). Am 3:10 (*S#5228h). *Mic 2:7. Hab 2:2. *Mt 13:11, 12. Lk 10:21. *Jn 6:45. **Jn 7:17. **1 Cor 2:14, 15. +*Ga 1:8. 2 Tim 2:7. **James 1:5. +*James 3:17. 1 J 5:20. that understandeth. Pr 14:6. 17:10, +*Pr 17:24. 19:25. 20:5. 22:21. 26:2, 7, 11. +**Pr 28:5, 11. 1 Ch 15:22. Jb 6:24. **Ps 119:104n. Je 23:20. +*Da 11:33n. **+Jn 6:14 (T#1122). *Ac 8:30. right. Pr 2:7. 3:32. 4:2. 11:3, 6, 11. 15:19. Ps 45:1. Ec 12:10. to them. Is 8:16. find knowledge. Pr 11:27. 18:15. 1 K 13:18n (point 12). Ps 49:3. +*Ac 17:11.
Jesus prayed to God. Thus he is not God.
Aman wanted to prove to his 16 year old daughter what hell is like. He took her hand anut it over a gas burner. He was arrected for child abuse. How horrible that is. w
ould or God do that to persons endlessly.
Every time I got into a discussion on Hell, it wa not them; always someone else. The creed of the churches put Jesus in Hell?
Jehovah said to Adam that his punishment would be death, not eternal torment. Hell is the common garave of mankind. Acts chapter two says that even Jesus was in it. He was only dead and in the tomb not alive in a place of torment.
Dear Jerome,
Thank you for your comment.
Jehovah did indeed state to Adam that his punishment would be death–death immediately to take place the moment of disobedience. We know the threatened death was to take place instantaneously because of the Figure of Speech used in the statement God made, the Figure Polyptoton, evident even in English translation, as the KJV, “thou shalt surely die,” the rendering of the Hebrew expression “dying thou shalt die” (Genesis 2:17). This speaks of spiritual death which was immediate, and physical death which was imminent. We know spiritual death took place immediately because the immediate response of Adam and Eve was an attempt to hide from God, whereas until then they had enjoyed walking with God in the garden.
I appreciate your input, and would enjoy further discussion with you on any Bible matter.
Thank you for visiting this site. I hope you will visit again as often as you find possible.
There is much more I want to say in response to your comment. I plan to come back and respond further soon.
Dear Jerome,
The fact that Jesus prayed to God is evidence that he was truly man. As man, he could and did pray to God as we can pray to God, though in Scripture there are significant differences about how Jesus is portrayed in his prayer-relationship to the Father compared to our prayer-relationship. For example, Jesus NEVER uses the expression “Our Father” in prayer in reference to himself. He always uses an expression like “your Father and my Father,” as at John 20:17, to show there is a distinction to be made between his relationship and our relationship to the Father.
Even if a man somewhere wanted to prove to his 16 year old daughter what hell is like, and so burned her hand as a demonstration, that hardly is any kind of evidence to determine what the Bible says about the subject of hell.
Hell can hardly be the “common grave of mankind.” If it is, then everyone who dies physically goes there. Yet Jesus warned more about hell and said more about hell than anyone else in the whole Bible. If hell were merely the grave, why warn anyone about it?
We need to take the warnings of Jesus about hell very seriously, and not try to so blithely dismiss or explain them away.
Your opinion or my opinion about what God should be like and what he should do has no bearing on the issue at all. The question is, what does the Bible actually teach about these matters?
You have raised some very interesting and most important issues.
I hope we can discuss them further. If we find we do not agree, lets compare notes on our evidence that justifies what we think is so. If your evidence turns out better than mine, such that you prove that the Bible teaches something different than what I have expressed on this site or in our direct discussion, I will be forced to change my opinion. The same should be true for you–if my Biblical evidence demonstrates your position is mistaken, then you will have to change your opinion.
I think the careful examination of our beliefs and the evidence that supports them is a very healthy thing to do spiritually.
Please do continue the discussion!
pro 8.9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find
knowledge.
cross ref
1 co 2.12 Now we have not received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit
which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.