Perhaps I should have titled this “Atheists don’t understand science or the Bible.” Both statements are likely to be equally true.
I was just reading an article at World Net Daily titled “Atheist group wants prof questioning evolution censored.”
LINK:
http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/atheist-group-wants-prof-questioning-evolution-censored/?cat_orig=faith
Which atheist group?
The usual suspects.
The Freedom from Religion Foundation.
In question is an elective course at Ball State University. It is being taught in the science department in conjunction with the field of physics, and has been fully approved by the university’s science department leadership.
But the course is identified as teaching Intelligent Design, which critics claim is the old Creation/Evolution debate with only a new name.
I find the comments by posters given beneath the article to be quite fascinating.
Here is a sample of just one comment:
That isn’t quite what I said, and I do know what ID is. Nothing is copied from other sites, as I really don’t go out of my way to read evolution sites.
Teaching ID as a scientific theory is unacceptable in the modern age. It does nothing to further our understanding of life and the origins of the universe. It can never be proven, tested, argued, and the evidence for it comes from religious beliefs, and not the scientific methods you mention above. That is the biggest problem in my eyes with ID. It can not be tested, it can never be proven, it is because a religious text says it is so. If we had no religion, and no bibles, and nothing but scientific methods, we would not have ID. We can only have ID with religion, and the most prolific exponents of this theory are those people who are religious, and usually Judeo/christian.
Science can be proven, look at some of the scientific laws we have. Newtons laws on gravity for example, I am guessing you do not float…. a theory in science, like in the theory of evolution, has a different connotation to theory in the traditional definition of the term. Many scientific theories are relied upon, and have furthered our abilities to do things, space travel for example.
Thankfully this notion of ID isn’t as popular outside of the United states. You only need look back in history to see how religious beliefs hampered scientific discovery. Scientists, respected today for their thoughts were persecuted by religious institutions, and some even died for their theories. Countries like Italy, England, Spain, etc, where there is state religions believe in the Theory of Evolution, and would never think of teaching ID outside a theology classroom.
Religion should not be part of Science, Science and Theology need to be separate, so that each can be respected for what they are. You cheapen religion by forcing it in to the area of science, and devalue science by bringing religion in to it.
Again, I am a deeply religious person, but see no place for it in science, and would not want science in my religion.
In my judgment, very few atheists or evolutionists know the difference between science and philosophy.
When science deals with the subject of origins, it ventures into philosophy, for it is attempting to explain what cannot be proven by the scientific method, or by experiment.
I noticed the usual claim made by atheists and defenders of evolution: Science can be proven, the Bible cannot be proven.
Shows how much they know about the Bible–virtually nothing at all. The Bible most certainly can be proven, in the sense that its claims can be verified by history and archeology. The commenters have likely never read even so much as a single scholarly defense of the Bible and Christianity.
Some of the atheistic commenters have no accurate knowledge of the history of science.
Why wasn’t science developed long ago in the ancient civilizations of Greece and Rome?
It turns out that science did not develop in the modern sense until it was developed by Christians!
By the way, Newton was a Christian. His science was better than his understanding of theology. If I recall correctly, Newton did not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. He wrote a commentary on Daniel and the book of Revelation which I have in my library. So I know he was not as well-informed about Bible prophecy either. But I still count him as a Christian. After all my study of the Bible, I have not found any statement in the Bible that suggests we must pass a test in Systematic Theology in order to get to heaven!
And you must have noticed by now that atheists are reluctant to visit this site to have a discussion.
hello jerry, psm 14.1-3 sheds alot of lighton atheism. vs 1 the fool hath said in his heart
there is no God. they are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none
that doeth good. vs2 the Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men,
to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. v3 they are all gone
aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not
one. when i read this i say to myself there goes i but for the grace of god!
I have known about our Saviour since I was 5 and all my 60 years on this earth I have seen the signs also had many visions as a child and I still know every one of them .They come and go and its been a while since I even had my dreams.My last one was about That Place a place where the Lord goes in private to be alone with the many he calls or they ask for a visit with him.It is real as the scripture told about the river of the Holy Spirit flowing all around it .I had to wash my face 3 times ? The water was not wet.We walked across the stream and my feet did not get wet.He said he will be coming soon and to keep believing in him .Anyone can visit him of course .The part that was a question to me was this place in the scriptures called the Holy of Holyessness and the main name was That Place.It is real in the bible verse but when I awoke my hand slipped in between the pages and I lost the scripture and I have been looking for 20 something years and asking.Does anyone have knowledge of this as I didn,t make it up.I want to go to heaven and be true.Hope to find the verse.God Blesss.
Dear Arline,
Thank you for your testimony and for posting it here!
I will attempt to get back to your question about the verse you are looking for. I am answering your comment from within this site, where all I see just now is the first line of what you wrote.
Many years ago I had an elderly friend, Uncle Frank, who was an expert about the types and symbols of the Old Testament, including the Tabernacle, and its Holy of Holies. He went home to be with the Lord in 1975. If he were alive today, I think he might give me a failing grade, suggesting I should have learned a whole lot more than I have by now about his favorite subjects in the Bible!
I wonder if the verse you were aware of had something to do with the Holy of Holies mentioned in connection with the Tabernacle (Leviticus 4:6) and also the Temple (1 Kings 6:16) in the Old Testament. The Tabernacle was made after the pattern shown to Moses of the original in heaven. It is mentioned in the New Testament too (Hebrews 9:6). There was a veil separating the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place (Exodus 26:33).
I have no doubt you know all this. But when I have utterly lost a verse I know about but cannot remember any of its exact words, I cannot use a concordance to find that verse.
There is one Bible study tool that will help you to find a sought-for verse. That tool is The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. It is available on line, and if you do a Google search it is not hard to find. I seem to recall that there is a website with a name something like the Blue something Bible. I can’t think of the exact title just now, but when I think of it or find it, I’ll post a link to it here, Lord willing. I found it: It is called the “Blue Letter Bible.”
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exo&c=26&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_corr_76033
The link above will take you to the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. To the left of any displayed verse there is a “button” called “Tools.” When you click on that, a drop-down list or menu appears. If you select “Cross References,” that takes you to the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge and its cross references. All the cross reference verses are given immediately below in full so you can easily read them. Those verses have the “Tools” button to the left of them, so if you want to look up the cross references for any of those verses, they are just a “click” away.
How this works for me is, I find just one verse somewhere in the Bible that has some connection to the verse I am searching for. I go to that verse in the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. This resource lists other verses that have a bearing or connection to that verse. With a little digging, almost always I can find the verse I am looking for, though I don’t remember the words of it exactly enough to find it with a concordance.
In the case of the verse you’ve been looking for, start from the verses I gave above that relate to it, such as Leviticus 4:6.
Now, when I just did that, the Leviticus 4:6 does not have any cross references given for the word you would need the references for. That is why I have been working to greatly expand the cross references originally found in the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.
I then tried the Exodus 26:33 verse, and the verses available for that verse where the first mention is made of the Holy of Holies or Most Holy Place are not given in the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. However, references are given for “the holy place,” and following them will likely get you to other verses which will connect with what you are looking for.
I spent today improving the cross references I have at Exodus 26:33, and here is what I now have for that verse:
Exodus 26:33. vail. *Mt 27:51. *Mk 15:38. =Lk 4:22. 23:45. =Jn 7:46. +=He 2:10. =He 10:20. the taches. ver. Ex 26:6. Ex 27:10. 36:36. within the vail. Ex 39:34. 40:3. Le 4:6, 17. 16:2, 15. 21:23. 24:3. Nu 4:5. 18:7. 2 Ch 3:14. Mt 27:51. He 6:19. 9:3, 5. 10:20. the ark of the testimony. +Ex 16:34. 25:16. 37:1. 38:21. 40:3, *Ex 40:21. Le 24:3. Ps 122:4. He 9:4. divide. 1 K 6:21. =Ro 8:3. =2 Cor 5:15, 16. He 2:9, =He 2:14. =He 9:8. the holy place. Ex 28:29. 31:11. 38:24. Le 6:16. *Le 16:2. 1 K 8:6, 10. 1 Ch 23:32. 2 Ch 5:7-10. 29:5. He 9:2, 3. most holy. FS147H, +Ge 9:25. ver. Ex 26:34. Le 4:6. 6:30. 16:2. Nu 18:10. 1 K 6:16, 19. 7:50. *1 K 8:6. 1 Ch 6:49. 2 Ch 3:8, 10. 4:22. 5:7. 29:16. Ezk 41:4. 44:13. 45:3. Da 9:24mg. He 9:3, 7, 8.
At Leviticus 4:6 you will [or you should, but I discovered the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge falls short here; I corrected this today too] find a list of other verses. Look at those. Then go to the clearest one that is closest to what you are looking for, and go there in the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. I find I sometimes need to go to two or three of the related verses and their cross references, but I eventually get to the verse I am hunting for if it is in the Bible!
As I said, this works even if you cannot remember any of the exact words from the verse, but only its general subject.
One time, for example, I was looking for a verse from the Old Testament about the fact that wars were often fought at a certain time of the year. Knowing and remembering only that, I could not find the verse using a concordance. I tried reading up on “war” in several different Bible encyclopedias and dictionaries I have. They did not mention this fact. So, I looked for a verse about war, and found one at Ecclesiastes 3:8. By following the cross references there, I found the verse I was looking for.
Cross references work very well that way because they are not based just on the word, but the subject or idea even when expressed in different words or in different ways altogether.