The Muslim Challenge (12-30-22):
According to the Bible, Jesus said:
“12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” (John 16)
What are the reasons for “god” coming to earth in the flesh and not completing his teachings?
My Response (12-31-22):
The answer to your question, in part, is stated in the verses you cite: “but you cannot bear them now.”
TK replied:
hmm… but the holy ghost came soon after he left.. so what the difference did that few days or few weeks make?
My Response:
The major difference pertains to their heart preparation. Before the cross event and the bodily resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ the disciples were very fearful, afraid for their very lives. Afterwards, the disciples were very bold and proclaimed the fact of their resurrected Lord with great transformative effect upon those who heard and saw their testimony.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
You can read for yourself in John 2:19 and John 2:22 an example of the change in understanding that took place in the disciples:
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
TK asks:
If Trinity is one God, but He breaks his plan into pieces, so that each person in the trinity takes a different task.. like I do first, then you do, then you continue.. ??
So the question remains.. the 2nd person of God did not complete his teachings and then a few days or few weeks later the 3rd person came to continue where the 2nd person left off? What exactly did this 3rd person teach which the 2nd person said they were unable to bear? I dont see what this 3rd person teach, except Paul who overturned everything the 2nd person taught. Is Paul the holy ghost? He’s not.. then it doesnt make any sense that the 2nd person didnt complete his teachings before he died and left the world.
My Reply:
As to whether Jesus, the Second Person of the Godhead, finished his work and teaching, the Scripture states:
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
The disciples were promised the guidance of the Holy Spirit once Jesus in bodily presence was no longer with them:
Joh 16:4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
It is clear from your comment above that you do not understand Paul. He did not overturn everything Jesus had taught. You know very well that Paul was commissioned by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself to carry out the task that our Lord appointed him to do. I have cited Acts 9:15 and context before to you:
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.
I have also referred you to the scholarly investigation of this subject by David Wenham, titled Paul: Follower of Jesus or Founder of Christianity? as well as the shorter and much easier to read titles by David Wenham, Did St. Paul Get Jesus Right? and the title Paul and Jesus: the True Story.
TK Responded:
//Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.//
yeah like i said, 2nd person did not complete the work so a 3rd one needs to come to complete it. 2nd person did part 1 and 3rd person did part 2. Yeah you can argue 2nd person completed his work, but that’s only part 1. Remember there’s also part 3.
and you have still not answered this question:
What exactly did this 3rd person teach which the 2nd person said they were unable to bear?
Forget about paul, he’s not the holy ghost that Jesus said would come to complete the teachings. Now just answer the question above.
My Reply:
On what basis do you make the claim that the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead, did not complete His work?
Who is the Holy Spirit? I suspect that your faith may not have the proper understanding of Who He is, what He did, or when in answer to the promise Jesus gave, when He came.
Most certainly the Bible teaches that the books of Scripture in the New Testament were given by the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit Himself during the First Century after Christ, and not afterward.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
TK responded to me (1-2-23):
you write all that in vain when you don’t try to understand the question.
My point is the 2nd person did not complete his work so he promised that the 3rd person would do it. My question is, what are these “teach all things” that this 3rd person has done? If it’s only to inspire 1st century writers to write the gospels, that’s not “all things” that they were unable to bear at that time cos the gospels are just recollection of Jesus’ teachings. There’s no new teachings.
My response (1-3-23):
TK, Jesus was an expert teacher. He knows that we can only learn just so much at a time. At a stressful time we are distracted by circumstances and may not be open to much further instruction. Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit “not many days hence” (Acts 1:5), an expression which means “very soon,” to complete the necessary and intended instruction (His new teachings) He desired us to have.
Jesus had told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem until He sent the Holy Spirit to them who would endow them with power from heaven:
Luk 24:49 I will send you the one my Father has promised, but you must stay in the city until you are given power from heaven.
Jesus gave the promise of the Holy Spirit Who would give them power to be His witnesses:
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
The disciples obediently remained in Jerusalem where they continued in prayer until the Holy Spirit would be sent to them:
Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
They did not have long to wait for the arrival of the promised Holy Spirit. Jesus had continued with them, teaching many things concerning the Kingdom of God, for a period of forty days:
Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
The Holy Spirit came on what is called the day of Pentecost. Pentecost means the fiftieth day, so the disciples were in waiting for this promise to be fulfilled for just ten days:
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Holy Spirit [1 Cor 2:13] guided and directed the writers of the New Testament as they wrote the 27 primary source documents during the remainder of the First Century, including the book of Revelation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The full revelation of God’s truth intended for us was complete during the First Century and absolutely no further written divinely inspired revelation is to be given until after our Lord Jesus Christ returns in power and great glory:
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Notice that Jude (one of the brothers of Jesus who came to faith in Him after the Resurrection) expressly states this faith was complete for all time, having been once for all delivered unto the saints. The faith was complete and entire in Jude’s day; it is now contained in the written Scriptures of the NT, with no need for additional revelation or doctrinal development. Note that “the faith” is a complete, not developing, body of truth delivered in complete form “once for all,” “unto the saints,” not a church hierarchy, but very ordinary believers.
The book of Revelation aptly and fittingly concludes with a stern warning that is applicable to the whole volume of divine revelation given us in the Bible not to add to or subtract from God’s Word:
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
The Holy Spirit has completed His work of inspiring the writing of Scripture. Therefore, any further claimed or supposed divine revelation must be false.