Does Genesis 12:3 apply only to Abraham or does it apply to Israel?

The Nugget:

Gen 12:3  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (KJV)

My Comment:

I have just re-read an interesting post on Facebook that makes the claim that the promise of Genesis 12:3 only applies to Abraham himself and not to the nation of Israel:

Possibly one of the most used scriptures of the century. People who haven’t even read one verse from the Bible will quote you this verse to justify their undying support for Israel. Why? Because this scripture has been used to imply that the blessing to Abraham was not just to Abraham but to all Israel, and therefore for all Jews, FOR ALL TIME. If it is, it would have to be the only unconditional (promise) verse in the Bible.

The person making this claim may not have studied the Bible carefully. To suggest that if this verse applies to Israel and not just to Abraham himself makes this “the only unconditional promise” in the Bible has missed the fact that there are many more  unconditional promises in the Bible besides this one!

Genesis 12:3 forms a part of the Abrahamic Covenant. There are provisions in the Abrahamic Covenant that are unconditional. So Genesis 12:3 is not the only unconditional promise in the Bible.

How about Genesis 3:15?

Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (KJV)

Genesis 3:15 is regarded by careful students of Bible prophecy to be the first Messianic Prophecy in the Bible. It predicts that the Messiah will be born of a woman. It was precisely fulfilled by our Lord Jesus Christ and no other (Galatians 4:4). It is an unconditional promise. Read it for yourself. It is obvious.

Here is another unconditional Bible promise that pertains to Abraham and the Abrahamic Covenant and to the nation of Israel:

Lev 26:42  Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. 

Notice particularly the promise that “I will remember the land.” That means that God has promised to remember and keep the Land Promise provision of the Abrahamic Covenant. This is another unconditional promise. There are no “strings attached.” The promise is absolute. Again, read it for yourself. It is obvious.

So, we can know for sure that there are unconditional promises in the Bible. I just showed you two of them off the top of my head.

Now, as for the claim that Genesis 12:3 applies only to Abraham himself and not to the nation of Israel, the answer to this mistaken claim is readily found if we:

(1) follow the rule of interpretation that we must consult all the Bible declares about a subject before we draw any firm conclusions;

(2) check this claim by following out what are called cross references which lead us to the other parts of the Bible or places in the Bible where the promise is repeated and note to whom the Bible applies the promise in those places;

(3) recognize that the claim as made states absolutely that Genesis 12:3 applies only to Abraham himself and that the claim can be proven false if the promise is applied anywhere in the Bible itself to the nation of Israel rather than just the person of Abraham alone.

It is so applied:

Num 24:2  And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him. 

Num 24:3  And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said: 

Num 24:4  He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open: 

Num 24:5  How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, and thy tabernacles, O Israel! 

Num 24:6  As the valleys are they spread forth, as gardens by the river’s side, as the trees of lign aloes which the LORD hath planted, and as cedar trees beside the waters.

Notice that Balaam in his inspired prophecy is speaking of the nation of Israel (see Numbers 24:5 immediately above).

Num 24:8  God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows. 

Num 24:9  He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee. 

Notice that Numbers 24:8 tells us that the nation of Israel has been brought forth out of Egypt by God. Balaam then (Numbers 24:9) applies the very promise God gave to Abraham in Genesis 12:3 to the nation of Israel, saying “Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.”

Since the Bible itself applies the promise of Genesis 12:3 made to Abraham to the nation of Israel in Numbers 24:9, the unconditional promise is properly applicable to the nation of Israel, proving the claim that it only applies to Abraham personally to be false.

The poster makes the further claim:

This was never a Christian teaching until the arrival of John Darby a defrocked Anglican minister who began to teach that this blessing to Abraham was not just for Abraham but for all Israel. Bear in mind that Israel was never a place. God never said to Abraham I’m taking you to Israel but rather that God was taking Abraham to the land of Canaan. John Darby became immortalised in the C. I. Scofield Bible (a dubious character in his own right). The teaching of Darby and C. I. Scofield became known as Dispensationalism. Dispensationalism is the belief system that is now prevalent in the Christian Evangelical Church.

Somehow this paragraph contains a number of logical flaws and factual misstatements. That John Darby is not the source of the teaching that Genesis 12:3 applies to the nation of Israel is clear because it is taught in the Bible itself in the passage from the book of Numbers that I have cited above.

To suggest that Israel was never a place, but rather Canaan is the place God was taking Abraham, misses the plain fact that what was called Canaan has since been called Israel. Both names apply to the same geographical Land Promise.

Notice that the argument of the second paragraph of the post is in the form of an ad hominem argument, which is a logical fallacy by which the character of someone or something supposedly associated with (in this case) a particular Bible teaching is impugned by mere reference to a person or  persons (Darby and Scofield, in this case) who taught the doctrine.

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43 Responses to Does Genesis 12:3 apply only to Abraham or does it apply to Israel?

  1. Cathy Kitchens says:

    I have thoroughly researched this subject and I agree with the poster that this article addresses. Darby and Scofield were charlatans.

  2. Jerry says:

    Dear Cathy,

    Thank you for posting your interesting and challenging comment here.

    You mention that you have thoroughly researched this subject.

    I would be pleased and excited to learn what you have learned in your research about Genesis 12:3.

    I am always interested in learning the evidence that supports a viewpoint that may differ from mine. If you read this site thoroughly you will notice that I frequently state that should someone provide me with better and conclusive evidence to support a view contrary to mine, I am always open to correction and will change my mind. That has happened several times in the discussions that have been conducted here.

    I look forward to hearing from you again.

  3. Cathy Kitchens says:

    I said in my comment that Darby and Scofield were charlatans. This is my comment and nothing more. There is much evidence for this with only a cursory amount of research required to become more knowledgeable on the subject. If you or anyone would only take a little time to research our doctrinal church history. There is so much out there concerning the rapture being a false doctrine that was from a dream of a young girl and was made into a religion called the Plymouth Brethren. Also, Scofield was used to put forth this false doctrine of futurism and premillennialism with his false Bible commentary. Lewis Sperry Chafer continued this deception by founding Dallas Theological Seminary. After you do your own thorough research on these three charlatans, including Dwight L. Moody founder of the Moody Bible Institute, then we’ll talk some more. This research will serve to will lead you to more questions as you see that the nation state of Israel was not a miraculous fulfillment of prophesy. Instead, it was a manipulation by the Rothschilds who were instrumental in getting the US involved in WWI through the signing of the Balfour Declaration. This is how Israel became a nation in 1948. Once again, I will reiterate that my only comment was that I believe that both Darby and Scoffield were charlatans. This has led to much misunderstanding of the scriptures in the false belief of dispensationalism.

  4. Jerry says:

    Dear Cathy,

    Thank you for your most interesting and welcome comment.

    I stand by the exposition of the Bible texts that I presented in my article.

    Many, perhaps most, Bible believing Christians are not well acquainted with the history of Bible doctrine, especially the doctrine of Eschatology.

    Dr. Stewart Custer, my Greek professor at Bob Jones University, also taught a course in Old Testament Prophecy, which I took and very much enjoyed. He introduced us to a number of remarkable books on the subject of Bible prophecy. He especially recommended a three-volume work by George N. H. Peters, The Theocratic Kingdom. He urged us to procure this then recently reprinted set from Kregel Publications in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I followed his advice, and have been carefully reading and rereading this book ever since.

    Peters mentions Darby several times in his work (published in 1881, if I recall correctly), but always takes a negative view of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren movement.

    I mention that Peters does not approve of Darby or his movement as my evidence to show that Peters did not derive his exposition of Bible prophecy from either Darby or Scofield.

    I began my serious and scholarly study of the Bible immediately after I was saved (November 7, 1953). The first Bible study tool I bought was The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. It is a book of cross references to every verse in the Bible. Using cross references to study the Bible has been the most important means for me of coming to a more accurate understanding of what the Bible teaches.

    The second book I bought and thoroughly studied is a book by Milton S. Terry titled Biblical Hermeneutics. This is a book about how to carefully and correctly interpret the Bible.

    During Darby’s lifetime there must have been a rift or division among the Plymouth Brethren on the subject of Bible prophecy. Benjamin Wills Newton taught a system of understanding that was quite different than that taught by Darby. A Greek scholar was connected with the Newton branch of the Plymouth Brethren. He published a very important Greek New Testament with a listing of many variant readings, an edition which is still highly regarded today. He also wrote a number of works on the subject of Bible prophecy. In one of those works he tells his understanding of where Darby got the idea of Bible prophecy, much as you have described. I believe Mr. Tregelles, the Greek scholar, was most mistaken in his criticism of Darby’s work. In my reading of Darby’s collected works, and in particular, his works devoted to Bible prophecy, I find no evidence to support the claims of Mr. Tregelles. I do find on the part of Mr. Darby the work of a careful expositor of the Word of God, especially his careful distinction between the Christian church and the nation of Israel.

    I do not derive my understanding of Bible prophecy from any of these great students of the Bible. Except for my citations from the work of Peters, you will not find me citing any of them as authority for what I understand the Bible to teach about predictive prophecy. Rather, I arrived at my position over time from my own study of the Bible.

    I am still learning more as I study God’s Word each day, and am always open to learning something new or to correction from anyone who happens to demonstrate from Scripture convincingly that I am mistaken in my understanding on some point.

  5. Cathy says:

    This does not surprise me. I am very familiar with what has been taught at dispensational universities like Bob Jones and dispensational seminaries like DTS. I knew from what you had written that you had attended one of the two. I was once in that camp but have left because of a deeper study of the scriptures as well. I can no longer go along with any of it.

  6. Jerry says:

    Dear Cathy,

    Once again, I find that many who hold the view of Bible prophecy that you seem to hold are less forthcoming when it comes to providing the biblical support for this view.

    I am all ears and most eager to learn from you your biblical basis for holding the view that you do.

  7. Cathy says:

    Once again I will reiterate, my original comment was that Darby and Scoffield were charlatans. I stand by this, and I also stand by my comment that even a cursory study of the two of these men will show this without a doubt. I said absolutely nothing about the Genesis comment. Please do not tell me that I need to give you verses. I made no comment as to verses in the Bible. It’s so easy to think that what dispensational teachers say is the truth. Each person will have to decide for themselves if Darby and Scofield had Zionist motives and agendas. This has been quite a journey for me, therefore, I cannot hold anyone’s hand and show them. Everyone has to do their own searching. If someone chooses not to do this, then that is what they have chosen to do. I chose to take a deep dive, and I came to the conclusion that these two men had an agenda. If someone begins here with the two of them, the whole dispensational narrative falls apart. When you or anyone has done the much needed research on these two men, then we can go from there with verses.

  8. Jerry says:

    Dear Cathy,

    I very much appreciate your continued participation in this discussion.

    You claim in your November 1 comment above, “I am very familiar with what has been taught at dispensational universities like Bob Jones….”

    Your claim reminds me of the similar claim by a local pastor here that since I attended Bob Jones University I must be a Calvinist.

    I am sure that many students of Calvinist persuasion have attended Bob Jones University.

    Both claims are false to the facts in the case. I went to and graduated from Bob Jones University. Anyone who has carefully learned about the founder of Bob Jones University knows that Dr. Bob Jones, Senior, is Methodist in his background. In general, Methodists are not Calvinists (though there is a small denomination referred to as Calvinistic Methodists in church history).

    Bob Jones University encourages all its students to faithfully attend the church or Sunday school of their own denomination while on campus. When I took the required course on the subject of Bible Doctrine, I was required to write my semester research paper on my own denomination. Bob Jones University is very careful to respect the differences in doctrinal positions of its students and the varied denominations they represent.

    Therefore, to suggest Bob Jones University is slanted toward any particular denominational or eschatological or prophetic view is quite mistaken. So, no, I did not get my particular understanding of Bible prophecy from what was taught or emphasized at Bob Jones University. The University did emphasize what are called the Fundamentals of the Faith, and prided itself at that time in being as Fundamentalist as it was possible to be. It then stressed the doctrine or position of separation from those who did not fully accept the Fundamentals of the Faith, particularly the divine inspiration of the Bible. It stressed the importance of evangelism and required every student to take part regularly in off-campus ministry. Neither Darby nor Scofield were matters of concern while I was there.

    Nevertheless, in my own personal studies of the matters you make reference to, I am quite certain that I am well read and well studied on the several topics you have mentioned.

    I mentioned Dr. S. P. Tregelles above. Specifically, he wrote a valuable book titled The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it taught in Scripture? And Why?

    I believe from my extensive study of this subject that this primary source is the basis for the claims against Darby to which you refer. Let me cite this source from page 35, the first sentence of the last paragraph and its associated footnote (in a chapter which begins on page 34, The “Secret Rapture”: Its Origin:

    “But when the theory of a secret coming of Christ was first brought forward (about the year 1832),* it was adopted with eagerness:

    *I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a *secret* rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an “utterance” in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin.”

    Unfortunately, Dr. Tregelles did not fully and carefully do his homework first when he wrote what he did. Mr. Irving’s Church did not believe or teach accurately the doctrine of Premillennialism as it is given in the New Testament and taught by the Early Church. So the supposed charismatic revelation falsely attributed to the Holy Spirit in Irving’s Church does not accord in its context with the teaching of Scripture and cannot be the source of the Pre-Tribulation rapture doctrine. The true source of this doctrine is the Bible itself, as I have carefully established from Scripture itself on this site.

    We must not base our understanding of the Bible upon the writings of men unless their writings are confirmed to be an accurate representation of what the Bible teaches.

    Therefore, the writings of Darby or Scofield have no bearing upon the truth of a Bible doctrine which can independently of them be established by a careful study of Scripture itself.

  9. ken sagely says:

    Hello jerry interesting questions raised . the most important issue in the bible is have i trusted Jesus christ as my personal saviour? its then can begin to understand Gods word the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in every born again believer to help him understand the word of God and what are its major teachings

    1 Corithians 2.14 Describes the man out side of Christ “But the natural man receiveth not
    the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto Him: neither can he know the them because they are spiritually discerned. in contrast the born again believer is
    described in 1 Co 2.12 Nowwe have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit of which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. The BIble is the final authority on its teachings. 2 pe 2.1 sheds light For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

  10. Cathy says:

    Jerry, the following is take directly verbatim from the Bob Jones website.

    “BJU Seminary adheres to a balanced dispensational hermeneutic based on grammatico-historical reading of the biblical text that maintains the distinction between Israel and the church, recognizing that God has a plan for Israel in the future. BJU Seminary affirms premillennialism.”

  11. Jerry says:

    Dear Cathy,

    Thank you for sharing this information from the Bob Jones University website.

    This may represent a change (for the better!) in emphasis that was not explicitly expressed while I attended Bob Jones University from 1958-1962.

    Well before I attended Bob Jones University I read and reread (3 times) a volume by Milton S. Terry titled Biblical Hermeneutics which emphasizes the grammatical-historical approach to Bible interpretation. This approach is emphasized in the volumes by George N. H. Peters titled The Theocratic Kingdom that I have mentioned, volumes I learned about from Professor Stuart Custer in his course on Old Testament Prophecy.

    I have on my desk a 1949 book by J. Ridley Stroop titled Why Do People Not See the Bible Alike? or Hindrances to Understanding the Bible. I bought this book many years ago at John’s Bible and Bookstore in Detroit, Michigan. I have not read it all the way through yet, but the title and subtitle well express the problem the book addresses.

    The central issue is not what this man or church may teach about the Bible or Bible doctrine or Bible prophecy, but what does the Bible itself teach about the subject. That question is settled by properly applying the Rules of Interpretation which I have outlined here in the October 2010 Archives accessible from the right-hand side of every page on this site.

  12. Cathy says:

    My whole point of saying what I originally said in my first post was to get people to look into Darby, Scoffield, and a whole host of other prophesy teachers. I hope I have done that because I have found that a lot of what is taught about “end times” has been manipulated for political purposes that the Zionists have brought forth for their own benefit. That is all I’m seeking to accomplish. I do not wish to engage in additional debates with you or anyone else. You are clearly a very learned individual with many books on your desk and shelves in which you have read or wish to read at some point in the future. I hope you and others will look into the history of these two men and many others who have made the Bible say that which is simply not there.

  13. Jerry says:

    Thank you again, Cathy, for your comment and insight.

    My point has been that the truth or falsity of any prophetic Bible interpretation is not based upon the individual persons, educational institutions, or denominations that may or may not promote it.

    Truthfulness of doctrinal or prophetic interpretation is solely determined by the accuracy of any interpreter’s adherence to the Rules of Interpretation (called Biblical Hermeneutics).

    I find that many, if not most, dispensationalists are totally mistaken about how long Christ will reign upon this earth, for example. Given the following Scriptures:

    Luk 1:32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 
    Luk 1:33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

    2 Samuel 7:13
    13  He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
    King James Version
    2 Samuel 7:16
    16  And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
    King James Version

    1 Chronicles 17:14
    14  But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
    King James Version

    Psalms 89:36
    36  His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    King James Version

    Isaiah 9:7
    7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
    King James Version
     
    Daniel 7:14
    14  And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
    King James Version
    Daniel 7:27
    27  And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
    King James Version

    Micah 4:7
    7  And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
    King James Version

    Revelation 11:15
    15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    King James Version

    Many Bible teachers answer that our Lord Jesus Christ reigns for only 1000 years. That is NOT the plain and repeated teaching of the Bible, as seen from the statements in the Bible itself which I have shared above.

    Earlier this year I read two books by Arthur W. Kac, M.D.:

    The Messianic Hope: A Divine Solution for the Human Problem (Baker: 1975. 355pp.)

    The Rebirth of the State of Israel: Is it of God or of Men (Moody Press, (c) 1958, by Marshall, Morgan, & Scott Ltd. 386pp)

    These scholarly, meticulously documented volumes make no mention at all of Darby or Scofield but do trace carefully the history of the rebirth of the State of Israel.

  14. Cathy says:

    This has been a useless endeavor. Don’t know why I even wasted my time on it except that I was trying to open people’s eyes. What you don’t seem to understand is that I used to be a pretrib dispensationalist and I know all about what you have put out there. I’ve studied it for 45 years and I have only within the past year and a half seen the light of its deception. The rapture was an unknown thing until 1830. Christians prior to that time (before Darby and Scoffield) did not believe in the rapture and believed the Olivet Dicourse happened in AD 70 at the Fall of Jerusalem. Josephus confirms it. All I ask is that people take the time to look into it. I feel betrayed by these pretrib rapture teachers from DTS who keep saying that the rapture is almost here. It’s not the end of time; it’s the end of the Jewish age which already occurred at AD 70.

  15. Jerry says:

    Dear Cathy,

    It is never a waste of time to share your insight into the truth of God’s Word, the Bible.

    I want to commend you for your kind and thoughtful participation here. I have spent more time studying points of view contrary to mine than I have spent studying those that are favorable to my own view.

    I am still always open to learning more about God’s Word, and have found we must all be open to verifiable solid evidence that we have been mistaken in our understanding, and be willing to change our mind.

    Please feel free to share the names of authors and titles of books that you have studied that helped you understand the subject of Bible prophecy and the rapture better. You may also know of other helpful sources of information such as websites that contributed to your more accurate understanding of these things. We would all be helped if you find it possible to share information sources here.

    In my own studies so far, I have learned that the age of a doctrine (when it was first propounded) has no bearing upon its truthfulness. Truthfulness of a doctrine must be determined by how accurately it conforms to what the Bible actually says. Accuracy of an interpretation is determined by the Rules of Interpretation (I have shared 24 such rules in the October 2010 Archives here), which are a summary of the principles of Biblical Hermeneutics.

    Sometimes as we carefully study the Bible we learn something new. Sometimes learning something new requires us to change our mind about a former position we held.

    Thank you again for your helpful discussion here.

  16. Cathy says:

    The granddaddy of all preterist books (very long, detailed, and thorough, yet easy to follow and understand) is entitled The Parousia by James Stuart Russell. Counters all of the new info put out by Darby in 1830. Tries to bring it all back to how Christians viewed Daniel, Revelation, and the whole Old and New Testament prior to 1830. It was written in the late 1800s.

    Last Days According to Jesus written by R.C. Sproul. I read this one before I read the one above. Sproul quotes some from the above book and that’s why I purchased the above book.

    Last Days Madness by Gary DeMar is excellent and lays it all out quite nicely and is probably the easiest to understand and decipher for any layman.

    We love to listen to David Curtis, pastor of Berean Bible Church in Virginia Beach, Virginia. He lays it out very plainly as well.

    There are many other resources, but I have found these to be the ones that are very Biblically solid. No conjectures at all. I’m so very weary of this with dispensationalist teaching. Did you know that dispensationalism was first called Darbyism? Can you say “agenda”?

  17. Jerry says:

    Thank you, Cathy, for supplying references to resources you have found helpful in your study of the Second Coming of Christ.

    I have the oldest volume you mention in my Logos software library.

    Although I have over 60 books by R. C. Sproul in my Logos library, I do not have the one you mention. I will check further to see if Logos carries it. I do have a similarly titled volume of his, so I plan to look into that one too.

    I appreciate your calling attention to these resources.

  18. TW says:

    If God is speaking to a specific individual at a specific time regarding a specific promise why do people take biblical passages out of context to mean something more in the moment that God speaks? First and foremost, it should be understood that every promise made by God has with those promises beneficiaries which point toward the elect thru Christ who are the true Israel and the only ones who’ll be transformed when Christ returns! The scriptures teach that there is one people of God, there is one salvation and one savior which is Christ! Therefore, those who continue to believe that are two salvation plans, one for Israel and one for the church completely misinterpret the scriptures despite what is said in Romans, Hebrews and Galatians regarding God’s promises!

  19. Jerry says:

    Dear TW,

    Thank you for visiting and leaving a comment here!

    There are many who agree with the doctrinal position you have stated so well.

    When a specific promise is repeated in the Bible, particularly a central promise like the Abrahamic Covenant, we must consider all that the Bible says about the subject.

    Paul was very aware of this principle of Bible interpretation.

    Paul states in Romans 11:29,

    Rom 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (KJV)

    Rom 11:29  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (WEB, World English Bible)

    Rom 11:29  For God does not change his mind about whom he chooses and blesses. (GNB, Good News Bible)

    Rom 11:29  God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone. (GW, God’s Word translation)

    Rom 11:29 God doesn’t take back the gifts he has given or forget about the people he has chosen. (CEV, Contemporary English Version)

    In the preceding context Paul wrote:

    Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 
    Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (KJV)

    God Himself states in Malachi 3:6,

    Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    God is not finished with the nation of Israel. The promises God made to the nation of Israel are not yet fulfilled.

    Steven mentioned this fact in his last message or sermon in Acts 7:5 when speaking of Abraham,

    Act 7:5  And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

    Therefore, the Bible itself declares that the promise made to Abraham has not yet been fulfilled. Its fulfillment awaits a time yet in the future:

    Mat 8:11  And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

  20. Dennis says:

    Cathy! I’m so happy to see another person who has come to truth! Like you I was a dispensationalist for over 40 years… But about two years ago I also saw the Zionist deception and actually read the Bible with proper hermeneutics and context… And I actually read what Christ himself said and how THAT generation wouldn’t pass away until ALL those things are fulfilled (Matthew 24:34). I also understood what Matthew 5:18 meant and the fact that either the heavens and Earth have passed away or we are still under the law…I also understood that Christ said from his own mouth that some standing there wouldn’t taste death until they saw the the son of man coming in his kingdom! Also the facts that Christ said you will not get through spreading the gospel through Judea before he returns or the fact that Paul in Romans tells us that they gospel has been preached through the whole world.

    Let’s face it folks… We’ve been duped and it’s time for Christians to scrap all that they’ve been indoctrinated and actually READ the Bible for what it says and WHO it was written to!

    I think like you rightfully said…if more people would understand who Schofield and Darby were they’d get a better understanding… And people really need to understand who the Khazarian people are… It might shock you!

    Here’s a question: If the Jews are part of the Genesis 12:3 promise… Then why is America the was it is? Do you see the blessings lately? We are the porn capital of the world! Our schools are teaching children that there are no genders and it’s okay to chop off parts of your body… Divorce rates are at an all time high and our economy is literally in the toilet! We are a nation about to crumble! So no… We are not being blessed at all! We are actually walking away from God and no amount of support to Israel will change that! Look the Jews have the old testament but they refuse to believe who the Messiah is even though it’s pretty clear in Isaiah 53 as well as many other places in scripture! No man goes to the father but through Christ… NO MAN! This includes Jews so they are not blessed either unless they accept Christ… Period! We need to focus on the current king who is Yashua! He’s not coming in distant future but he has already come!

    Anyway Cathy, I just wanted to shout out to you and let you know that you are not alone!

    God bless you all and we need to be a united people!

  21. Jerry says:

    Dear Dennis,

    Thank you for your positive comments regarding Cathy’s posts.

    I have been carefully reading the sources Cathy recommended to me.

    I look forward to returning here very soon to respond to your comment.

    Thank you for visiting my site and leaving such a good comment.

  22. Matt noon says:

    Dispensationalism is a modern man made tradition. It has turned into a political movement. It’s distorted so many aspects of the Bible and chopped it up into different isolated stories for different peoples of God rather than one smooth story that’s all connected, about one people, the elect. God gave promises to Abraham so that they to be passed down to Christ who would, in the fullness of time, fulfill them. You can not simply remove the Jews from the story of God, they are there all the way through the Bible’s, but Israel goes through a transformation. From ethnic to spiritual. Paul clearly teaches us this so we aren’t confused.

    Paul clearly re-defines a Jew.
    Romans 3:28-29 “a Jew is not one who is merely one outwardly and circumcised in the flesh, but a Jew is one Inwardly who Is circumcised in the heart by the Spirit.”

    This is exactly what Paul means in Galatians 6:6 and Romans 9:6 when he says the “Israel of God”

    Romans 9:6 “Not all who descended from Israel belong to Israel.”

    The seed of Abraham is not ethnic it’s the elect.
    Galatians 3:29” If you are Christs then you are Abrahams offspring.”

    The promises and plan of God always have been and always will be for the elect. The church, this includes Jews and gentiles, it doesn’t matter as long as you belong to Christ.

  23. Jerry says:

    Dear Matt,

    Thank you for your interesting input on this most important subject.

    Interpreters differ in their understanding of the Bible texts you have carefully referenced.

    Dispensationalism as you may perceive it may be “a modern man-made tradition.” To artificially divide up the Bible into seven dispensations is eisegesis, not exegesis. Such a view is not in accord with sound hermeneutic principles.

    You will not find anything that I have posted here on this site that advocates this view. Neither will you find support for such a view in my books, The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, Nelson’s Cross Reference Guide to the Bible, or my digital-only resource, The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury.

    Nevertheless, the view you advocate is not correct according to Scripture. Malachi 3:6 tells us that God stated the nation and people of Israel still exist because He does not change. God has not and will not renege on His Covenant Promises to Israel. Paul declares this very thing in Romans 11:29, “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (ESV).

    It is not proper procedure to criticize a Bible doctrine on the basis of who supposedly came up with it or when they did so, or the character of any such person or group. That amounts to the ad hominem fallacy. That is likely even a worse error than eisegesis. The question that must be addressed is, what does the Bible itself teach about the contested subject.

    Thank you for making specific reference to Bible texts which you believe support your view, texts like Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6 and Galatians 6:16. This combination of texts is frequently cited by those who deny Premillennialism. The whole Christian church for the first 250 years firmly believed in Premillennialism. Its denial represents a departure from what the Apostles and our Lord Jesus Christ taught.

    A major flaw in the interpretation you present in your comment is the narrow view of the term “elect.” A careful study of this term by means of studying the cross references will quickly alert careful readers of the Bible that this term is used in reference to more than one group or individual in Scripture.

    Thank you again for commenting here. I hope my response to your comment will not scare you away! Feel free to continue this discussion or to make further comments anywhere on this site. I welcome comments from anyone who may disagree with me. That leads to deeper Real Bible Study. Do not miss the major point that when we study the Bible itself, we should always be prepared to learn something new.

  24. John says:

    God bless you Cathy and Dennis and all who stand opposed to Dispensational heresy.
    It seems the well learned friend who hosts this discussion has failed to see (just as the well learned Pharisees) what our faithful father Abraham saw. The Promised Land = JESUS!! According to Scripture, God has given His Word as both a source of salvation and a stumbling block – John 12:4 and the WORD that I have spoken will judge the one who rejects Me – John 12:48. A source of salvation to His elect and a stumbling block to those whose seek an earthly promise that was always meant to be spiritual (a spiritual kingdom) for those who have eyes to see. Every unconditional promise made to Israel was fulfilled in Jesus and was made to the true Israel, both Jew and Greek.
    I cannot say it better, so I will quote the words of David Wilkerson from:
    https://www.worldchallenge.org/devotion/true-meaning-promised-land
    THE TRUE MEANING OF THE PROMISED LAND
    God gave our forefather Abraham the land of Canaan “as an everlasting possession…” (Genesis 17:8, NKJV). In Hebrew, the word everlasting means never-ending. You might think that Abraham had to rejoice over this. God promised his descendants a permanent homeland, as far as they could see, and it would last into eternity. However, the New Testament tells us the world will be destroyed by fire, burnt completely out of existence, after which the Lord will bring about a new heaven and earth.
    How could God’s “everlasting possession” to Abraham be a mere piece of real estate? How could it be eternal? God was saying that this land of promise was symbolic of a place beyond the earth. I believe Abraham knew this. The Bible says that as Abraham moved about in Canaan, he always felt alien: “By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise” (Hebrews 11:9). Abraham’s heart longed for something beyond the land itself.
    “He waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10). Abraham could see the true significance of the land blessing and he realized, “This place isn’t the real possession. It’s just an illustrated sermon of the great blessing to come.” Abraham grasped the true meaning of the Promised Land; he knew Canaan represented the coming Messiah. Jesus himself tells us, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad” (John 8:56).
    The Holy Spirit enabled this patriarch to see down through the years, to the day of Christ. He knew that the meaning of his Promised Land meant a place of total peace and rest, and that this place of rest is Jesus Christ himself. That’s right, the Lord Jesus is our promised possession. We are his, but he is ours as well. God invites us to obtain our everlasting possession by simple faith.

  25. Jerry says:

    Dear John,

    Thank you for your kind and pointed comment. I appreciate that you have appealed to Scripture itself for many of your points.

    I have been reading and studying the resources suggested by Cathy. One resource I already had in my Logos software library. The other resource by R. C. Sproul, who makes much reference to that resource, became available in Logos so I purchased it and have read it thoroughly and completely.

    As a former debater on the high school and college level, I enjoy studying the several sides of controversial issues and carefully considering the arguments and supportive evidence of each side.

    So far, the arguments that have been presented in comments here and in the writings of the suggested authors who defend the anti-dispensational view are deeply lacking in careful interpretation of Scripture.

    When suggested interpretations of Scripture fail to follow the 24 Rules of Interpretation I have placed in the October 2010 Archives immediately accessible in the Archives list on the right-hand side of each page of this site, such interpretations must be mistaken!

    I will be back to point out several hermeneutical errors I see present in your comment.

    I would be delighted if you find it possible to continue this conversation. I always look forward to learning something new about what the Bible actually teaches. I am always willing to change my mind when the evidence shows I have been mistaken in my understanding.

    Thank you for visiting and contributing a comment here!

  26. Joshua says:

    Does the Bible say that the earth is actually flat? My wife recently went off the deep end with this flat earth theory stuff and she insist that the Bible clearly says the earth is flat! I, in no way believe this..but would love to hear what everyone has to say about it.

  27. Jerry says:

    Dear Joshua,

    It is possible that the surrounding cultures of the authors who were used to pen the Bible believed the earth is flat.

    As best I have been able to determine, the Bible itself does not assert or teach that the earth is flat.

    There are interesting verses which do show the ancient authors knew more than what modern readers and non-readers of the Bible suppose:

    Job 26:7
    7  He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
    King James Version

    My comment on this verse published in my digital Bible study resource, The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury, is as follows:

    “One of the amazing things about the Bible often unrecognized and unaccounted for by its critics is the fact that its statements are scientifically accurate. Its writers did not intrude the mistaken notions of their surrounding culture into the Word of God. That the earth “hangs upon nothing” is scientifically true, yet this statement was made long before modern science confirmed it.”

    Another interesting verse which may be speaking of the fact that the earth is round is Isaiah 40:22,

    Isaiah 40:22
    22  It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
    King James Version (bold emphasis added)

    My comment in the UCRT:

    the circle. Job_22:14 (circuit). Pro_8:27 (compass). This is a reference to the fact that the earth is round, just as in Job_26:7 we have the statement that “he hangeth the earth upon nothing,” both remarkable declarations since proved scientifically accurate.”

    Often, Bible authors use the language of every day expression, just as we do when we speak of the sun rising and setting. We speak in terms of what we apparently observe, the language of appearance, even though we know in fact that the apparent rising and setting of the sun is the result of the earth turning on its axis. It is no different with the use of language by the Bible’s writers. Thus, reference to the “four corners of the earth” in Isaiah 11:12 is both a matter of the language of appearance and also a matter of translation choice, rendering a Hebrew expression into an idiom in our language:

    Isaiah 11:12
    12  And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
    King James Version

    The Hebrew expression for our “corners” is actually “wings.” Reading the related verses (see Job 37:3) in several different English translations and noting the marginal renderings supplied by the translators of the King James Version will illustrate how the language of the original text of the Bible is used.

    Sometimes Bible writers use the language of the surrounding culture by way of parody to mock or make fun of the falsehood of what that culture believed.

    My response is already long–and I have hardly begun to address all the interesting related issues, but I trust what I have written helps you and others to see that the Bible, properly understood and accurately interpreted, is more accurate than many might suppose.

  28. Patricia Cornett says:

    Hello Jerry.
    Regarding the Bible Not teaching that the earth is flat, how is it then in Joshua 10:13 “the sun stood still…”? If it was the earth that stopped moving, wouldn’t that have caused enormous tsunami’s and other major incidents on the earth?
    And if the earth is moving around the sun, but the sun was not created until the 4th day, ( Genesis 1:16-19) what was the earth rotating around the first 3 days?
    And, can you point me to the verse in Genesis where God made the earth to spin 1000+ miles per hour while rotating 67,000 miles per hour around the sun?

    And finally, how can you think you believe God’s word and yet completely ignore the first and most important Words where He lays claim as the Author and Creator of this world?

    We cannot believe both God and Satan, the father of all lies – the very first being that “surely you will not die”, and the second that God Himself did not create the world.
    If we are going to believe the earth is a spinning globe, then give up preaching God’s word, because otherwise you promote a lie of Satan and therefore are a partaker of the sin he has infected this world with.

    For more on this topic I suggest author Edward Hendrie’s “The Greatest Lie On Earth”, and David Wardlaw Scott’s “Terra Firma”.

  29. Patricia Cornett says:

    PS: Regarding your comments about the earth, you reference Isaiah 40:22
    22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,

    The original word which is translated circle is different from the word translated sphere or ball.
    It means circle. A circle is not a sphere.
    Do your research and you will learn that your explanations are completely wrong.

    I pray God opens your eyes to all of His truths.
    BTW: I agree with Cathy and those who have commented in support of her understanding.
    Blessings.

  30. Jerry says:

    Thank you, Patricia, for your interesting comments!

    Just now I could greatly benefit by having the clock stop so I could have a few more hours in the day to study and then answer such interesting questions like these you raise.

    I could also benefit were I to have a “photographic memory.” I have read and studied much on this topic in the past and again just lately in modern discussions and resources that are likely somewhere in my extensive Logos Bible Software library. Unfortunately, I do not recall the details I read. It would take the time I don’t have at the moment to do a search of that digital library of over 27,300 books to find just what I did read recently! But I may yet do that, time permitting.

    I do not think that Joshua’s prayer request that the “Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon” (Joshua 10:12) suggests that the earth is flat like a platter!

    If you go outside on a cloudless dark night when the moon is visible you will see that it is not only round, but spherical, like a ball, and like any globe you might observe. You have no doubt seen globes with the map of the world on them.

    The ancients knew this too, though a good many of them may not have recognized this and connected the dots so as to enable them to know the earth is round and spherical like a ball, not a flat disc like a salad plate.

  31. Jerry says:

    To answer your challenge regarding Isaiah 40:22, I will cite a portion of the comment that David Guzik presents in his commentary on this verse:

    iv. Every once in a while, unlearned critics talk as if Bible believing people are members of the “Flat Earth Society” – people so out of touch with real science that they still insist the earth is flat. In response, we should be reminded that Augustine, perhaps the greatest of the church fathers, who lived about a thousand years before Columbus, professed that the earth was round, not flat. As well, in the thirteenth century, Thomas Aquinas, the most profound and prolific of medieval theologians, observed that the spherical shape of the earth could be empirically demonstrated. All they did was agree with Isaiah: It is He who sits above the circle of the earth.

    It is interesting that you comment that you agree with Cathy!

    I bought Dr. R. C. Sproul’s book, The Last Days According to Jesus: When Did Jesus Say He Would Return? I have read it carefully.

    Dr. Sproul makes significant reference to J. Stuart Russel’s book, The Parousia: A Critical Inquiry into the New Testament Doctrine of Our Lord’s Second Coming.

    I have that book in my Logos library, and now also have Dr. Sproul’s book in my Logos library too.

    Unfortunately, Dr. Sproul makes no reference in his book to the three-volume work by George N. H. Peters, The Theocratic Kingdom. Had he studied the careful research presented in the book by Peters, he might have been forced by the careful evidence in that book to change his mind.

    Here is my explanatory note on Matthew 16:28 as given in The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury:

    see. Note: This appears to refer to the mediatorial kingdom which our Lord was about to set up, by the destruction of the Jewish nation and polity, and the diffusion of the gospel throughout the world.

    The preceding original Comprehensive Bible note reflects a mistaken prophetic position still held by some Amillenarian interpreters, answered directly by Peters (Theocratic Kingdom, vol. 2, Proposition 153, Observation 4, Note 4, p. 562), who states “who urge the destruction of Jerusalem (which John only survived) as the fulfillment (of Mat 16:27-28). How this can be reconciled with a coming in glory, with a coming of the Son of Man (i.e. in His humanity), etc., we are not informed. More than this: this coming is specifically predicted, over against all such assertions, to be one, not for the destruction of Jerusalem but for its salvation, as e.g. Psa 102:16, “when the Lord shall build up Zion, He shall appear in His glory,” with which compare Mic 3:12 in connection with following chapter; Zechariah 14; Amos 9:11, etc.”

    In context, however, the experiences on the mount of transfiguration reported in chapter 17 may be the fulfillment of this prophecy. Peters also notes in connection with the transfiguration, that “the glorified condition of Christ, Moses, and Elias thus indicates…the futurity of the Kingdom.—a Kingdom not to be realized at the First Advent in humiliation, not during the absence of the Bridegroom, but at the Second Advent, when He and His saints come ‘in glory.’” The transfiguration furnished “an earnest, actual reception of glory,” and served as “a most direct proof that the covenant and prophets would yet be fulfilled.” The transfiguration reveals the relationships of those who will be with Christ in his future eternal earthly kingdom. Peter, James, and John, represent unglorified, mortal men living on the earth, who personally witness and rejoice in the manifested glory of the Messiah. Jesus is personally present in this kingdom in His state of glory, as are Moses and Elias, who also appeared “in glory.” Moses and Elias are purposely chosen as a correct exhibition of the two parties, forming one class, who shall appear in glory with Christ: (1) the dead saints, and (2) the living saints translated. Peters notes that the transfiguration “stands forth, pre-eminently, as a Divine confirmation of the Theocratic Kingship of Jesus, of the glory of His saints, and of the happiness of the nations who shall witness it—a fact so striking and corroborative of the ultimate Redemption of saints and of the race, that Peter seizes upon it as a grand proof that Jesus shall come unto so great Salvation” (Theocratic Kingdom, vol. 2, p. 561).

  32. Robin Mauro says:

    Saying that God made unconditional promises to Israel is not exactly true. God did make unconditional promises to Israel, that would eventually be fulfilled (such as the Jews returning to Israel, and in Paul’s writings, etc.), but God also told his people that if they followed the practices of the Caananites, ( idol worship, immoral sexual practices, etc.) they would suffer the consequences. The Israelites did the things that they were warned not to do, and got kicked out of the promised land by God. My point being, God never allowed His people do do evil – he never condoned evil, no matter who was doing it. And yes, it was prophesied that, eventually, He would bring them back to Israel, which He did, but still, God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and still does not condone evil, even when, or especially when, his people are doing it.
    So, although some promises appear to be unconditional, they really are not, not to the generation He was talking to anyway, and not to future generations either, unless they obey. Even though he always saves a remnant, who do obey, and even though Israel plays a huge part in Revelation, and even though God does not forsake His people entirely, He uses discipline to bring them back into His will.
    But the thing that really stuns me about the present day interpretation of that promise to Abraham, is what is missed; that Abraham would be a BLESSING. That part is entirely skipped over. So, if the promise is not only to Abraham, but also to future generations, so also is the responsibility, the being a blessing to other’s part.
    I am horrified by the attack of Hamas on Israeli citizens. Horrified! I am also horrified by the previous, and ongoing mistreatment of the Palestinians ((homes bulldozed, water stolen, Gaza, an open air prison), and the current present day indiscriminent attack on Palestinian civilians, including leaving them with no water. A human being can only live without water for a few days. It is a mess all around, a complete horror, a travesty. And it’s all terrorism.
    I realize how difficult it must be to go after Hamas without harming civilians, but for God’s people, for God’s laws, for the love of God, it must be attempted! Violence begets violence, and “vengence is mine saith the Lord.”
    Isaac and Ishmael buried their father Abraham together. Genesis 25:9.
    They are all cousins, for heaven’s sake!
    And Leviticus also says ” The foreigner living among you must be treated as your native born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.” Leviticus 19:34
    The radical right, on “Christian” radio never looks at the Palestinian plight with any empathy whatsoever. And they don’t look at how nuanced God’s promises are. This is not of God! This is not of Christ! And the misreading of the Abahamic promise is the justification that they always cite. But God loves everyone, and wants everyone to be saved. And two wrongs never make a right.
    God help us! Please God, help us! I beg you, help us!

  33. Robin Mauro says:

    Leviticus 19:33-37
    “If a stranger dwell in your land, and abide among you, do not upbraid him:
    But let him be among you as one of the same country: and you shall love him as yourselves: for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
    Do not any unjust thing in judgement, in rule, in weight, or in measure.
    Let the balance be just and the weights equal, the bushel just, and the sextary equal. I am the Lord your God, that brought you out of the land of Egypt.
    Keep all my precepts and all my judgments, and do them. I am the Lord.”

  34. Robin Mauro says:

    Cathy, the Bible does speak of the rapture, how one person will be working next to another…one sleeping next to another, and one will disappear, and the other will be left.
    As to whether this is pretribulation or post, is not clear, as much as some preachers/ teachers like to claim it to be.
    I realize these posts are old.
    I found this article, or blog, or website, while looking for the reason why so many Christians believe the promise to Abraham applied to all the Israeli’s for all time, because this scripture is being repeated over and over, in response to the recent attack of Hamas on Israel, and the Israeli governments response.
    As for the other comment here, about Israel meaning the elect, or believers, that is true, but it is also true that God is speaking specifically of the Jewish people at times, (many times) in the old and new testaments. Paul makes that very clear.
    I never went to Bible College, but I am 64 years old, and I have read the Bible for most of my entire life. In my late teens I fell away, until my early 20’s. But
    I was raised First Southern Baptist, and for all their mistakes ( which every denomination (and individual) makes, they were really good at teaching scripture and encouraging reading the Bible for oneself. We had scripture contests! I am forever grateful for that!
    Reading all this is fascinating, but it makes me rather thankful that I never did go to Bible College, or read many Bible commentaries, except for when I have a specific question and want to hear what other people think on the matter. It is not hard for me to accept that, for now, “we see through a foggy glass”; that there are some things we are not meant to know or understand completely. That’s what faith is. And He gives us enough in the Word to move in faith regardless of what we do not completely understand. And He made the most important part simple; Jesus.
    I am so glad that I don’t have to figure out words like dispensationalism and hermeneutics! :). ( yes, I have a vague understanding), but I really don’t care that much. The Bible is enough.
    Jerry, if you post my comments, will you please put them in the order they were written, and not the last one first?
    Thank-you, and God bless!

  35. Jerry says:

    Dear Robin,

    Thank you for your carefully thought out and marvelous comment here!

    I think Romans 11:29 is very instructive:

    Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (ESV)

    The context of this verse sheds more light on what God is doing:

    Rom 11:30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
    Rom 11:31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
    Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. (ESV)

    Yet Jesus spoke of the reward of peace makers in Matthew 5:9,

    Mat 5:9  Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (KJV)

    The promises to Israel are irrevocable and unconditional as to the nation, but disobedience and unbelief has and will yet certainly forestall their specific fulfillment to that nation.

    I think Peter spells out the precise key to the fulfillment of the promises to Israel. Fulfillment will be delayed until Israel meets the conditions to permanently receive the blessing God has promised as stated in Acts 3:19-21,

    Act 3:19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 
    Act 3:20  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 
    Act 3:21  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (KJV)

    The blessing of Abraham has already spread to all the world. Paul stated in Romans 3:1-2,

    Rom 3:1  What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 
    Rom 3:2  Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 

    Notice that the Hebrew Scriptures, the oracles of God, were committed to the Jews. The New Testament, the Greek Scriptures, also originate with the Jews. The Scriptures have been of great blessing to all mankind, and are the fruit of the great Covenants God made with both Abraham and David.

    I just finished reading two very remarkable books in my Logos Bible software library:

    1. Mangalwadi, V. (2012). The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization. Thomas Nelson.

    2. Schmidt, A. J. (2004). How Christianity Changed the World. Zondervan.

    Much more than even many Christians realize, the Bible has literally changed our world for the better.

    There seem to be many anomalies in the present eruption of hostilities between Hamas in Gaza and Israel just now. Certainly the unmitigated slaughter of Israeli families and children–including the decapitation of infants, the rape of Jewish women–on the part of Hamas is utterly despicable.

    How this breach of Israeli security took place is at this moment inexplicable and highly suspicious. That the Israeli failure to detect the preparations by Hamas for this attack when Israel may well have the best surveillance at its borders of any country in the world seems too incredible to be true. The delay in Israel’s response which seems to have permitted Hamas brutality to continue far longer than it need have is highly suspicious to me.

    There are most likely many innocent individuals, including Christians, who live in Gaza that are not involved in attacking Israel. I have a missionary friend who has a ministry in Lebanon. But from Israel’s standpoint, this vicious attack was unprovoked and uncalled for. They rightly believe that a firm response is necessary to prevent such an attack from ever happening again. That means permanently eliminate the existence of Hamas.

    Hamas and many Muslim nations have indicated their intention to eliminate the existence of Israel. This attitude toward Israel is reflected in Psalm 83:4,

    Psa 83:4  They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. (KJV)

    I placed the following comment on this verse in my Bible study resource, The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury:

    from being a nation. Israel’s national existence was a perpetual discomfort to all the heathen peoples around. The very name (as Diocletian felt about the Christian Church) must be obliterated, before men could settle down in undisturbed worldliness (Kay, 1871). The nations named as uniting against Israel are currently all Muslim nations. These nations are not named as uniting against Israel in Ezekiel 38, 39, possibly because they by then have been supernaturally defeated as this Psalm appears to predict.

    I have spent many hours in discussions with Muslims in an effort to help them understand the Bible more accurately. These discussions are saved under the category “Apologetics–other faiths.”

    It is never up to us to render vengeance, for God has declared in His Word, the Bible, that “Vengeance is mine,” as Paul quotes the Old Testament text in Romans 12:19,

    Rom 12:19  Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

    Our job is to pray for the peace of Jerusalem:

    Psa 122:6  Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

    Thank you again, Robin, for commenting here.

  36. Stephen says:

    A better question is “does the promise apply to ALL of Abraham’s descendants?” Is there biblical support that the promises apply ONLY to Israel? Ishmael, Esau, etc. are also descended from Abraham. I understand that many promises were exclusive to the Jews, but I question whether this one is.
    Also, in response to Cathy, I am currently reading “The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism” by Daniel G. Hummel. Hummel is a religious historian affiliated with the University of Wisconsin. The book is a well-researched, fairly evenhanded treatment of the concept and contains multiple sources of opponents/proponents.
    Finally, I have never met a Calvinist who believes he is not among the elect.

  37. Jerry says:

    Thank you, Stephen, for posting an interesting question here.

    The promise found in Genesis 12:3 is specifically given to Abraham and the promised seed or descendants born of Abraham and Sarah, not Abraham and Hagar.

    The Bible does tell us that God extended a special promise to Ishmael in answer to Abraham’s request.

    In my opening post I provided substantial if not irrefutable Bible evidence that the Genesis 12:3 promise applies to Abraham and also to the nation of Israel.

    I would have approved your comment much sooner but I have spent the last two weeks reading and studying the excellent resource titled The Parousia by James Stuart Russell, a work of over 500 pages:

    Russell, J. S. (1878). The Parousia: A Critical Inquiry into the New Testament Doctrine of Our Lord’s Second Coming. Daldy, Isbister & Co.

    Cathy recommended that I read it. Now I have read it!

    I hope to comment about this fascinating book, but already the clock has reached the time where I must stop for the night.

    Thank you for commenting here. Feel to comment again.

  38. Jerry says:

    I must thank Cathy for the sources she recommended that I read about Bible prophecy which present a view quite different from the view I have presented on this site.

    I have just finished reading The Parousia by James Stuart Russell. This book is 561 pages long, so it has taken me some time to carefully read and study it.

    On this site in the October 2010 Archives I have posted 24 Rules of Interpretation which must be carefully followed in order to correctly interpret the Bible. Rule 9 states:

    (9) You cannot leave out material which, if included, would require or necessitate a change in the interpretation. Mat 4:6.

    As I read through The Parousia, I found that the author most helpfully arranged his discussion in the order of the New Testament books.

    I eagerly looked forward to reading his discussion of a most important text found in Matthew 21:43,

    Mat 21:43  Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    The author makes no mention of this text anywhere in his book.

    I have discussed this text at least three times on this site quite thoroughly:

    https://www.realbiblestudy.com/?p=3424

    https://www.realbiblestudy.com/?p=2325

    https://realbiblestudy.com/?p=2039

    Anyone who genuinely desires to understand Matthew 21:43 is encouraged and invited to read those three posts to learn more about what the Bible teaches about Bible prophecy.

    Matthew 21:43 is a crucially important text about Bible prophecy and must not be neglected or avoided if we are to understand Bible prophecy correctly!

    James Stuart Russell’s book, The Parousia, has this to say about the Antichrist:

    ANTICHRIST NOT A PERSON, BUT A PRINCIPLE

    1 JOHN 2:18.—‘Even now are there many antichrists.’

    In the opinion of some commentators the name ‘the antichrist’ is supposed to designate a particular individual, the incarnation and embodiment of enmity to the Lord Jesus Christ; and as no such person has hitherto appeared in history, they have concluded that his manifestation is still future, but that the personal antichrist may be expected immediately before the ‘end of the world.’ This seems to have been the opinion of Dr. Alford, who says:—

    ‘According to this view we still look for the man of sin, in the fulness of the prophetic sense, to appear, and that immediately before the coming of the Lord.’*

    There is here, however, a strange confounding of things which are entirely different,—‘the man of sin’ and ‘the apostasy;’ the former undoubtedly a person, as we have already seen; the latter a principle, or heresy, manifesting itself in a multitude of persons. It is impossible, with this declaration of St. John before us,—‘Even now are there many antichrists’—to regard the antichrist as a single individual. It is true that in every individual who held the antichristian error, antichrist might be said to be personified; but this is a very different thing from saying that the error is incarnate and embodied in one particular person as its head and representative. The expression ‘many antichrists’ proves that the name is not the exclusive designation of any individual.

    Russell, J. S. (1878). The Parousia: A Critical Inquiry into the New Testament Doctrine of Our Lord’s Second Coming (pp. 331–332). Daldy, Isbister & Co.

    Even though Mr. Russell does quote the entire text of 1 John 2:18 a few pages back, he quotes only the latter part of the verse at the head of this discussion. Of course the first part of the verse contradicts what Mr. Russell has to say about the second part of the verse.

    Mr. Russell makes frequent reference to Matthew 24:3,

    Mat 24:3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    He very correctly points out that the “end of the world” should be translated “end of the age.”

    Mr. Russell also points out that the word “end” here translates the Greek word “sunteleia,” but here he goes astray. Mr. Russell fails to point out that “sunteleia” refers to the conjunction of two ages, the culmination of one age and the beginning of another age.

    I placed this note in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge and The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury at Matthew 24:3,

    the end. Gr. sunteleia, *S# G4930. The joining of two ages, the consummation or completion of the various parts of a scheme. Vine states “The word does not denote a termination, but the heading up of events to the appointed climax” (Dictionary, vol. 2, p. 27).

    Preterists like Mr. James Stuart Russell make the astonishing claim that all the prophecies Jesus gave in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 were completely fulfilled by 70 AD, the Fall of Jerusalem. For Mr. Russell, this includes what Jesus said to the High Priest and Sanhedrim as recorded in Matthew 26:64,

    Mat 26:64  Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 

    Other related texts make the same prediction:

    Matthew 24:30
    30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    King James Version

    Luke 9:26
    26  For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.
    King James Version

    Luke 17:24
    24  For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
    King James Version

    The text that Mr. Russell believes requires this immediate fulfillment to be witnessed by at least some of those who heard Jesus give this Olivet Discourse is Matthew 16:27, 28,

    Mat 16:27  For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 
    Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    I have furnished the following note for Matthew 16:28 in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge and also The Ultimate Cross Reference Treasury:

    see. Note: This appears to refer to the mediatorial kingdom which our Lord was about to set up, by the destruction of the Jewish nation and polity, and the diffusion of the gospel throughout the world.

    The preceding original Comprehensive Bible note reflects a mistaken prophetic position still held by some Amillenarian interpreters, answered directly by Peters (Theocratic Kingdom, vol. 2, Proposition 153, Observation 4, Note 4, p. 562), who states “who urge the destruction of Jerusalem (which John only survived) as the fulfillment (of Mat 16:27, 28).

    How this can be reconciled with a coming in glory, with a coming of the Son of Man (i.e. in His humanity), etc., we are not informed.

    More than this: this coming is specifically predicted, over against all such assertions, to be one, not for the destruction of Jerusalem but for its salvation, as e.g. Psa_102:16, “when the Lord shall build up Zion, He shall appear in His glory,” with which compare Mic 3:12 in connection with following chapter; Zechariah 14; Amos 9:11, etc.”

    In context, however, the experiences on the mount of transfiguration reported in chapter 17 may be the fulfillment of this prophecy. Peters also notes in connection with the transfiguration, that “the glorified condition of Christ, Moses, and Elias thus indicates…the futurity of the Kingdom.—a Kingdom not to be realized at the First Advent in humiliation, not during the absence of the Bridegroom, but at the Second Advent, when He and His saints come ’in glory.’”

    The transfiguration furnished “an earnest, actual reception of glory,” and served as “a most direct proof that the covenant and prophets would yet be fulfilled.”

    The transfiguration reveals the relationships of those who will be with Christ in his future eternal earthly kingdom. Peter, James, and John, represent unglorified, mortal men living on the earth, who personally witness and rejoice in the manifested glory of the Messiah.

    Jesus is personally present in this kingdom in His state of glory, as are Moses and Elias, who also appeared “in glory.” Moses and Elias are purposely chosen as a correct exhibition of the two parties, forming one class, who shall appear in glory with Christ: (1) the dead saints, and (2) the living saints translated. Peters notes that the transfiguration “stands forth, pre-eminently, as a Divine confirmation of the Theocratic Kingship of Jesus, of the glory of His saints, and of the happiness of the nations who shall witness it—a fact so striking and corroborative of the ultimate Redemption of saints and of the race, that Peter seizes upon it as a grand proof that Jesus shall come unto so great Salvation” (Theocratic Kingdom, vol. 2, p. 561).

  39. Al-Farid says:

    Jerry – you state (on Nov. 3, 2023):

    “The promise found in Genesis 12:3 is specifically given to Abraham AND the promised seed or descendants born of Abraham and Sarah, not Abraham and Hagar.”

    I have to regretfully say, Jerry, that there, you lie.
    You are guilty of ADDING to the word of God!

    Yes, as you point out, almost the same thing is said by Balaam, on a later occasion, regarding the Israelites, in Numbers 24:9

    But for some reason, Judiolators virtually never quote or refer to that verse. They incessantly specifically refer to Genesis 12:3, and then ADD to the word of God when they claim that Genesis 12:3, parts a and b, concerning blessing and cursing, applies to Abraham’s SEED!

    I.) THE CONTEXT, AND THE GRAMMAR OF GENESIS 12:3

    God speaking to Abra(ha)m:

    Genesis 12:2 “And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee,
    and make thy name great; and so shalt thou be a blessing;
    Genesis 12:3 (a) And I will bless them that bless thee,
    (b) and the one who curseth thee, I will curse.
    (c) and in thee all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

    – Only older English translations (such as the King James), and those in foreign languages which still employ SEPARATE, DISTINCTIVE PRONOUNS to maintain a clear distinction between the second-person SINGULAR (thou, and thee; thy; thine), and the second-person PLURAL (ye, and you; your; yours) make the true sense (and limitations!) of Genesis 12:3(a) and (b) clear:

    – Modern English Bible translations, (and those modern English speakers who, even when reading the KJV, are too illiterate to understand the proper meaning of “thee and thou”, and who instead mistakenly assume that this is simply the “special, reverential language of prayer used when addressing the Deity,”(sic!) or some such), fail to see that EVEN THOUGH God has JUST FINISHED STATING that He would make a GREAT NATION of Abra(ha)m, NONE of the promises of the “retributive effects of either blessing or cursing Abra(ha)m” are here IN ANY WAY applied to that “great nation”, (of which God has just spoken!); NOR are they applied to “thy posterity”, or to “thy descendents”: NONE of these promises to Abra(ha)m ARE IN THE PLURAL! (i.e., “ye”, “you”, or “your”, in the original language!) [Modern English equivalents would be: – “you-all”; (“y’all”); – “you-guys”; – “all of you”; or similar circumlocutions.]

    There is not even any mention of Abraham’s wife, Sarah (Sarai); There is NO mention of “your house”, or of “your children”, or of “your sons who come after you”; (nor for that matter, of thy house, or thy sons, or thy children!) And there is NO mention whatsoever of “Israel” or of “the nation of Israel”; or “that people”: The promises are all exclusively to Abraham, as a single individual: they are all stated in the second-person SINGULAR, NOT the plural!!!

    In the New Testament, Genesis 12:3 is quoted TWICE – by both Peter, in
    Acts 3:25 – “And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.”
    — And by Paul, in Galatians 3:8 – “In thee shall all nations be blessed” –

    — Yet both of them quote ONLY the last clause of Genesis 12:3; NEITHER of them ever cite the first half of the verse; neither of them ever indicate any admonition to “specially bless” the nation of Israel (and to avoid “cursing” them!) as being incumbent upon Christ’s disciples: Rather, we are commanded to be a blessing to all people, regardless of their race or ethnicity, and not to curse anyone!

    – Superstitious modern Philosemites, however, apparently have absolutely no scruples here about “ADDING TO THE WORDS OF GOD” – despite the even clearer, and stronger admonitions not to do that, and the attendant promises of God’s curses upon those who do so! Viz,

    – Deuteronomy 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.”

    Deuteronomy 12:32 “Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.”

    – Proverbs 30:5-6 “Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. (6) Do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.”

    – Revelation 22:18-19 “I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; (19) and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.”

    _________________________________________________________

    Some blatant examples:

    – Jerry Foster (Calvary Chapel, South Lake Tahoe, pastor, in his sermon “The Black Robes”, on October 2, 2011):

    “Okay: Genesis 12:3 says ‘the nation that blesses Israel I will bless; the nation that goes against Israel will be cursed.’ So if I’m saying: “Okay, here’s our slate for Republican candidates; let’s see where they stand on Israel.” I can do that!”
    _______________________________________________________

    Some teachers even expand the meaning of “curse” to include any criticism of Israel:

    – Michael Brown, (in a January 12, 2012 “Line of Fire” radio broadcast entitled: “Why Israel’s Preservation and Salvation Should Matter to All Believers”) shamelessly adds to the word of God when he says:

    “Does the word given to Abram, back in Genesis 12, that God would bless those who blessed him and his seed, and curse those who reviled and cursed him and his seed – does that hold true today? – Can that be applied to Jews in general? Does it still hold? And is there some sacred calling on Christians to stand with the modern state of Israel?…”
    _________________________________________________________

    – Rob Glickman (preaching through Genesis, chapters 12-17, on October 28, 2012), first READS the Scripture accurately enough as follows:

    “So the Lord had said to Abram, verse 1, chapter 12: “Get out of your country, from your family, and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation, I will bless you, and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.””

    But then in the very next breath, he proceeds to brazenly add to the word of God, by
    substituting his own words for the word of God, when he says:

    “Notice in verse 3, “…all of the families of the earth in you shall be blessed.” So the result of Abraham’s faith would be that all the people on the earth would be blessed through their connection to THE FAMILY OF Abraham…”

    And again:
    “…but also, promises of blessing, to those who would bless the family of Abraham, and also, promises of cursing, for those who would come against the family of Abraham.” I will say that throughout history, those who have come against the descendants of Abraham, and I’ll just say the Hebrew people, they don’t exist today. Those peoples that have sought to destroy Israel, don’t exist today,[sic!] and that’s why it’s so important for our government to stand with Israel, because this is a promise, and also a promise of cursing, if it’s disobeyed. There is a blessing that comes from standing with the descendants of Abraham – He’s speaking of their physical lineage here, not a spiritual lineage.”
    _______________________________________________________

    — As said, despite all the great promises which God has just given Abram! about the future destiny of his descendents, this so oft quoted (and perverted!) promise of blessings to those who bless him, and curses upon those who curse him, in the original Hebrew is specifically and exclusively in the second person SINGULAR – “thee” – NOT the second person PLURAL! (you; or you-all.) It does not speak of the one who blesses (or curses) Abraham AND his descendents, or his whole house, or that great nation, or his seeds; or the family of Abraham; but just Abra(ha)m personally, individually! That’s what the word of God says in Genesis 12:3!

    Hence, everyone who claims that Genesis 12:3 speaks of anyone who blesses or curses the Jews; or the modern nation of Israel is guilty of ADDING TO THE WORD OF GOD!

    ——————————————————————————-

    There’s only ONE verse in the New Testmanet which specifically instructs us as to how we ARE to bless Israel – namely in Acts 3:26 (just after Peter, in verse 25, has just quoted ONLY the LAST part of Genesis 12:3, WITHOUT making any mention of the first two parts!!!), he then says that Christ came “to BLESS Israel, BY TURNING EVERY ONE OF THEM FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS!”

    –And since Paul says that we are to be imitators of Christ, even as he himself is (1. Cor. 11:1), the way we are called to bless Israel / Jews today, is by doing all we can to help them repent, and turn from their wicked ways!

  40. Jerry says:

    Dear Al-Farid,

    Thank you for writing such a remarkably detailed and careful comment here. I have enjoyed reading what you wrote, and I hope many others will too.

    I invite you to “follow” this site, and I look forward to any further comments you write or questions you may ask.

  41. Wilfredo Perez says:

    I have read some of this back and forth dialogue between Cathy and Jerry and came away feeling somewhat sad for the two of you. I have been there myself, doing your best to convince the other person that you are right and vice versa, although It seems that you have good intentions as well. What I did find refreshing and most important was when a fellow named Ken Sagely posted his thoughts to you and it was very important information regarding Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit’s relation to the believer, and good scripture references. Both you and Cathy totally ignored this man and kept on with your dialogue to each other. This leads me to wonder if either you or Cathy are truly saved because you definitely would/should have acknowledged Ken and at the very least made a statement or two about what he said to you. Sometimes people get so carried away with trying to be professor like intellectuals they they never see the true message from God’s word. This is not meant to offend you both, but maybe to allow your eyes to be opened a little bit. Thank you Ken Sagely for your comments, they are what people need to hear during these bad times we are in.

  42. Jerry says:

    Dear Wilfredo Perez,

    Thank you for your comment here.

    Ken Sagely is a long-time (since 1993) good friend of mine. I do not always respond to Ken’s comments but I often let him know by calling him on the telephone that I am always delighted with his responses to my posts here.

    Ken Sagely gave me the idea to post “Daily Bible Nuggets.”

    Ken Sagely has given me full permission to post his Facebook posts here on my Real Bible Study site.

    I am about to post Daily Bible Nugget #830 which is based on a very recent Facebook post of his.

    I hope you will visit this site often and feel most free to post comments here. There is much you can learn here about the Bible and how to understand it better.

    I am glad you found my site.

    I would be interested in learning how you found this site.

  43. Jerry says:

    Back on November 13, 2022, Ken Sagely posted the following comment on this discussion thread:

    “Hello jerry interesting questions raised . the most important issue in the bible is have i trusted Jesus Christ as my personal saviour? its then can begin to understand Gods word the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in every born again believer to help him understand the word of God and what are its major teachings

    1 Corinthians 2.14 Describes the man out side of Christ “But the natural man receiveth not
    the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto Him: neither can he know the them because they are spiritually discerned. in contrast the born again believer is
    described in 1 Co 2.12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit of which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. The BIble is the final authority on its teachings. 2 pe 2.19 sheds light For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

    I fully agree with Ken Sagley that personal salvation is the most important issue in life.

    It is also the most important pre-qualification for understanding the Bible correctly.

    Another related factor is that God expects us to do our homework of careful Bible study.

    2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 

    That is the central purpose of this Real Bible Study website–to help everyone learn to study and understand the Bible better.

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