Apparently, Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is ever called God in the Bible.
Yet I gave a whole list of verses where Jesus is called God in the New Testament. The verses I gave were John 1:1, John 20:28, Acts 7:59, Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20. Hover your “mouse” pointer over these highlighted verses and the text of each verse will “pop up” so you can easily and immediately read each verse for yourself.
A Muslim participant in the “Islam and Christianity Debate Group” responded,
Uthmanmuhammad Aboki The Biblical verses refering to Jesus as god are, without doubt, products of human interpolations. Because Jesus himself has clearified the matter in several places in the Bible. “The Father is greater than I”, said Jesus. He is not God who has anyone that is greater than him. This simple fact is incontestable. “No one has seen God at anytime.” John 1:18. But Jesus was seen. “O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1st Chron 17/20. If God were in multiple persons, then this verse shouldnt be in the Bible.
I present my rather detailed response below:
Uthmanmuhammad Aboki, you make some very interesting assertions. But assertions, to be valid, must be supported with evidence.
You claim, “The Biblical verses refering to Jesus as god are, without doubt, products of human interpolations.”
There is no documentary evidence, no textual evidence, available to support your claim. But if you think you have some, I will gladly consider it. But until then, we must accept the text of the New Testament as it stands written in the original Greek as the final authority in this matter.
When Jesus said, “The Father is greater than I,” Jesus is speaking of His subordination to God the Father, a position that has always been true, both before the Incarnation of Christ, and since His bodily resurrection from the dead and forty days later His bodily ascension to heaven to return to the Father. But subordination does not imply difference in essence. Jesus Christ has always been the Second Person of the Trinity, and as such, possesses the same divine nature as does God the Father, and the Third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. That is what the Bible teaches, in both the Old Testament and in the New Testament.
You do bring some very interesting verses from the Bible into the discussion.
“The Father is greater than I”, said Jesus. He is not God who has anyone that is greater than him. This simple fact is incontestable.
Here, you are making reference to John 14:28. But of course, if the Second Person of the Trinity is subordinate to the Father, then logically Jesus can say “for my Father is greater than I.” Furthermore, Jesus was speaking this while He was still in the flesh, before His bodily resurrection, so Jesus then is speaking in His position as a man.
Now you argue, “He is not God who has anyone that is greater than him. This simple fact is incontestable.”
And yet, though you appeal to the Bible to verses you believe support your claim, when I provided an extensive list of verses where Jesus in the Bible is directly called “God,” you dismissed them all with the unsupported claim that all my verses are interpolations! How do you know the verses you cited are not interpolations? Now I do not express any doubt about the validity of the verses you have cited, and you should have no doubt about the many verses I have cited.
In terms of what is being said at John 14:28, when Jesus speaks of His Father being “greater than” Himself, the Lord Jesus Christ was not inferior as to His essential being (see John 14:9; John 14:11; John 10:30), but as to His office, as sent by the Father (see 1 Corinthians 15:27; Philippians 2:9-11).
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
“No one has seen God at anytime.” John 1:18. But Jesus was seen.
Jesus said that God is spirit (John 4:24). Spirit cannot be seen with human eyes. Therefore, no man has ever seen God the Father, unless God chose to manifest Himself as a physical being, when He appeared as a man or as an Angel to individuals in the Old Testament. These appearances are called theophanies. An example of one of these is Genesis 12:7.
Genesis 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
Another example is Genesis 32:30.
Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
I have studied this subject in the Bible very carefully. By comparing Scripture with Scripture, allowing the Bible to explain itself, I have found that when anyone has seen God “face to face” that person has seen the LORD, or Jehovah. Sometimes in the same context the Person who has been seen is called God, the LORD or Jehovah, or the Angel of the LORD, or the Angel of Jehovah.
At Genesis 19:24 there are TWO persons called Jehovah present at the same time, at the same event, at the same scene.
Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
It is possible to correctly affirm from Scripture, therefore, that there are two Persons called Jehovah in the Old Testament.
The One that Abraham saw in Genesis 19:24 is in context spoken of as a “man” (Genesis 18:1, 2). This “man” is later called God and Jehovah in the subsequent narrative, too long to quote here.
Now Jesus said, “Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and saw it, and was glad” (John 8:56). This surely shows that Jesus Christ claimed to be the Person that Abraham actually saw, seen by Abraham as a man, called Jehovah, and called God.
This demonstrates, therefore, that Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnate form was seen as the Angel of Jehovah, as Jehovah, and as God, what we call the Second Person of the Trinity, at least from the time of Abraham as recorded in the Old Testament and asserted in the New Testament.
Perhaps you all can help me. I attend my Bible Study @ my local Senior Citizens Center led by local clergy volunteers with abt. 15-20 participants. I do not drive. There are two problems I face. First. the Lord Jesus is too often a “side issue” rather then Center which He is supposed to be. Second, there is no interaction between the presenters & the audience, so the Bible Study is actually a lecture rather than a discussion between the presenters & the audience with a “take-it-or-leave-it” attitude. I know it is the Holy Spirit Who actually leads us. What is an evangelical way to raise this issue to both the presenters & the participants?
Dear Rod,
You have asked some most important questions!
Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ must be the center of everything.
But since the presenters are local clergy volunteers, which certainly speaks well of them, it may be hard to address this issue directly. But even pastors undoubtedly are open to ideas for future presentations or discussions, at least they ought to be. If you come to know any of the pastors better than the others, you might see if it is possible to strike up a conversation with them after the presentation. Let them know of subjects, topics, themes, approaches, that you would find helpful.
Many “presenters” at “Bible studies” only know how to do what they have themselves experienced. Too often the model they know is the lecture model. Bible study is much more interesting and can be much more dynamic than that!
I have encountered just the problem and situation you describe.
If the seating arrangement of the Bible study potentially allows for audience participation–such as the asking and answering of questions, the problem is solved. Asking questions can lead to discussion, and that is what is needed.
You might be able to talk to the person or persons who conduct the Bible study at the Senior Center, perhaps after the study has ended and the people are leaving, and ask some questions to see if the person is or the persons are open to allowing discussion at the Bible study.
A few Bible study leaders are open to conducting a Bible discussion, and that is what they would like to see happen, because it allows the participation of members of what would otherwise just be a listening audience.
But many others are not open to such an option, for various reasons. I have had some interesting experiences related to that! Should that be the case where you are, it might be possible to meet with a few of the most interested people who attend and see if they would be interested in meeting informally for just such a purpose separately from the regular study.
I would have answered you sooner, but only just now have I been able to access this part of my site. My son fixed the technical issue just 45 minutes ago, so I got to your questions as soon as I could!
If my answers do not seem to apply to your situation, tell me more about your situation, and ask more questions.